April 2020 Forensics Meet and Confer

AFSCME Labor Management MSH

April 16, 2020 1230PM

Administration Building


Attendance: Adam Castle, Ryan Cates, Steve Wilking, Anni Jukacki, Scott Melby, Marvin Sullivan, Scott Melby, Lisa Vanderveen, Denise Considine, Alli Kuhlman


Reflection/Celebration: Carol-Compliment all staff on managing this emergency. Complying with the booth and all of the other changes. The communication is overwhelming but staff is managing well and managing the patient population really well.

Standing Agenda Items:

  1. Osha Information-Handouts from Elizabeth.

  2. Overtime Information-Handouts from Elizabeth.

  3. Labor Management Committee Attendee-

Old Business



  1. Atlas Update Permissions-Cates-Update on contacts and photos access. Roxanne-haven’t heard updates on that. Hasn’t been a solution yet. Recommend that those that aren’t comfortable, don’t use

  2. Safe Staffing Levels on Oak and OT-Cates-when oak was reformed and had 4 staff. We were told it wasn’t the intent to put the problematic patients there. Now they have and are a lot of issues with only 4 staff. Lisa-I haven’t heard a whole lot of that so I will look into that. You are right, we weren’t going to do that. We didn’t have the patient that was a 2 to 1. We will monitor that and ensure appropriate staffing. Cates-we need another staff there.

  3. Sprint Issues/Scheduling Cell Phone-Cates-Asked about getting a cell phone so that staff with sprint can call. Roxanne-I can check to see if the numbers have been distributed. Cates-they have been. Can we make sure it gets distributed to staff? Roxanne-yes

  4. Bulletin Boards-Cates-Was this done or can it be done? Scott-FNH break room we have a spot and vocational we can put in shop break rooms. Would you like to check those spots and make sure they are okay and let us know. Cates-Looking at the one at the bottom of the hill. Scott-would summit break room be ok? Cates-yes. Scott-I will do more work on that at the bottom of the hill. Cates-let us know what works and we will come and hang stuff up. Carol-you want it in an area where patients aren’t. Scott-we will work on that and send an email to you.

New Business



  1. COVID Issues-Cates-Hazard pay for members. I have heard responses but will still say it. Denise-we don’t have the authority to approve that.

  2. UP Scheduling-Cates-we don’t like lack of privacy. Thermometers are reading low at 95. This is hypothermic and being told to go through anyway. So what is the point of doing it? Carol-Privacy we have had safety and infection control look at it. It is the safest way to manage right now. If you add dividers it creates more surfaces and impedes airflow. Roxanne-have had lots of challenges with thermometers. Trying to keep temp in tent at room temperature. With cold nights, they are affected. We need readings so we continue to go through the cycle and what can we do to make more accurate. When weather warms up, this will help. They have added heaters. We want staff to check themselves at home as well. Marvin-concern is when I knew it was 98 but at tent I was told by RN I was good to go at 95.2 which is hypothermic. This means they are off by 3 degrees. Scott-we know they aren’t as accurate but we are trying to do everything we can. Screening is more than taking the temp. It’s the questions. This is a pandemic and we aren’t the only organization dealing with this. We recalibrate when needed. We will try to come up with processes. We will continue to do more as we can.

  3. UP Staffing Level Rumors/Staff sent to Units-Cates-Scheduled a lot of different shifts. Nowhere near in 2 hours of shift. It kept happening after talking to hr. any plan to make it not happen? Scott-I did follow up and thought we fixed it. Cates-hasn’t happened since last month that I know of. After I talked to scheduling and HR they fixed it that period but happened the next. Scott-that is not our intent for that to keep happening. Someone was trying to be creative responding to the incident. Let me know if it happens.

  4. LPN Issues/Taking out of Grove/Grove E Staffing-Cates-people heard up will be reduced to move to units. Scott-when we got positions approved. We filled and hired knowing we would have to spread after construction was done. One of the needs was in up so they could help us fill positions. Knowing that when units open up, we could move PCN in that area. Carol-we are going to fill positions and build up utility pool with the plan as Scott says. We want to fill positions and use them in any way. That was the intention all along. Cates-I thought that was the float pool. Scott-float pool and utility pool is synonymous. The hiring pool is different. Grove E. how many HSSS on any shift on north campus? Lisa-I believe its 6. Cates-if there is an incident, they are supposed to call law enforcement. But they cannot enter without staff but staff is sometimes unable to leave. Lisa-it was 5 but I think we increased that number. I think of an incident and I think they added a post. We did a root cause analysis and I don’t remember any issue with that. Sounds like we had plenty of staff and happened during business hours. Incidents can happen but it has been open 3.5 years and it is rare to call law enforcement. Marvin-it’s also good to be proactive. Cates-the ability to allow law enforcement to enter is the issue. Scott-ok, I will look at it.

  5. LPNs out of groves? Roxanne-evaluating how to staff the groves. We need to utilize staff. There will be movement but we will go through the proper steps to do that. Whatever is left behind will be used to fill. We don’t have staffing for Forest view south. When we open, we need staff with our resources. We will be looking at all resources to support it. It may not look at just one grove. Marvin-Determining overtime. Concern over what happened this weekend. A unit didn’t have rn or LPN so called r not and one picked up. Called sick, then went to an LPN to fill. Who is supposed to fill? Roxanne-ODs will determine the need. Steve-only a nurse or nurse supervisor can assess nursing roles? Roxanne-aods works with the RNOD. Marvin-what happened was they inversed LPN to cover the RN sick call for RN, then shifted the RN. When LPN got someone to fill for them…it was weird how it all played out. If it was an RN filling RN role, it should have been an RN. Cates-you can offer voluntary to RN. No reason to inverse an LPN if an RN already took it. Carol-send us dates and the shift so we can go through this. Send to Roxanne and myself.

  6. Texts for OT-Cates-is this standard practice on overnights? Scott-I wasn’t aware of any texts for overtime. I don’t want it done. I ordered it to stop, let me know if it happens.

  7. New Unit Issues/Water Turn Off, lights and lockers-Cates-water turn offs are switches on the units. Patients can walk by and just turn them on or off. Scott-we will take a look at it. Cates-complaints about lights in nursing stations with glare and impairing vision in omni cells. Large pad locks on chains can be broken off and become weapons. Carol-the light issue, we have talked to nursing. According to best practice and minimizing errors. When they are designed, they are built to that. At this point we evaluated lockers and will not be making changes to lockers. I wasn’t sure what the water was about, thank you.

  8. Holidays/Least Seniors forced off-Cates-staff take holiday off and sign up for overtime. Staff request off, least seniors forced off, then find open spots as overtime. Then give to staff that have requested the holiday off as overtime. Should offer to staff that could have worked that day before. Scott-senior requests for holiday off, get off, then least senior is assigned off, both off, if both sign up for OT we shouldn’t give to them? Cates-forcing a staff off and telling them that the senior staff took it, who requested it off initially. Marvin-this is 4 or 5 days ahead of time. Carol-we gotta think about this one too. Annie-we have had this issue in MSOCS. We added when it comes to holidays, if you request off the holiday, you are not eligible to pick up on that holiday. If sick call, it is offered to everyone who didn’t request it off, if no one picks it up, then it can be offered out. Marvin-we used to operate like that here. Denise-I will have to look into it. It’s in m but not in ours. I will have to do a bit of research on how to do this. We do this according to contract right now.

Add Ons:

  1. Union Officers Time Off-Cates-when our meetings were cancelled last month, everything was changed for being scheduled to attend these meetings. Some of us were able to get it changed back but Emilio wasn’t. Asking our officers allowed to have shifts that allow us to get to these meetings. They cancelled for the rest of the year. Carol-I didn’t realize that happened. Steve-we want it noted someone was denied.

  2. Define Work Areas-Steve-I sent an email to HR requesting defined work areas for afscme. Sent out a month before Covid. Pushing 2 months already. Scott-you didn’t get it because it wasn’t finalized. We are going to have to regroup and go through that and get it to you.

  3. Overtime for Grounds Crew on Weekends-Marvin-are you assigning overtime to grounds workers on weekends? Scott-I haven’t heard that. Marvin-Jesse has been assigning overtime to fill gas tanks. He said the contract was null and void and doesn’t have to go by seniority. Scott-thanks for letting us know and we will follow up. It is not null and void. Carol-first I am hearing of as well.  Marvin-if that is happening can we offer by seniority. Scott-yes. Carol-we will follow contract, yes.


Meeting Adjourned at 120PM