2/16/17 MSH Meeting Minutes

Present: James Hemshrot, Adam Castle, Tim Headlee, Ryan Cates, Katie Gleason, Cindy Jungers, Scott Melby, Marvin Sullivan, Krystal Kreklow, Carol Olsen, Melissa Gresczyk, Allison Kuhlman


Standing Agenda Items

Old Business:


  1. Fulton “staff study” update-Carol-Posted on SharePoint and shared with labor management BMS. Emphasized staffing asks.  Never did anything else with it, only staffing study.  Mirrors what we had in BMS study.  Might not be a bad idea to bring to labor management group committee.

  2. MNOSHA “abatement plan” 68.3% update-Carol-68/3 came from OSHA when we received the penalty.  We believe we abated but no we are not at where we want to be with safety.  Successful agreement with OSHA that it is satisfied.   That’s where the fine came from.  35000 to be spent on safety.  Our safety efforts through the committee adjunct. Successfully demonstrated the 68 percent.

  3. Term 9 (Rule 36) variance update-

  4. LPN: vacancies, retention, OT, floating/coverage-HR-Last year attended 33 job fairs.  11 events planned though end of 2017 as of now but may do more. Tracking in staffing from these fairs. Gauging if these efforts are working. Scott. LMC has talked about recruitment and retention and that group will work on campus.;  Kurt-Suggesting higher pay for those staff left behind as far as new staff being paid more off the street than someone here for 5 years.  Gresczyk-we are not in the position to talk about until the bargaining process.  Something that can be negotiated. MMB will look at these.  Whatever comes out of master.  We don’t have authority to do this unless they give us the authority.  We can maybe revisit the options.  People off the street making more….this is across all state government.  Sometimes we have flexibility with hiring higher.  Staff sometimes transfer to other positions and keep the higher pay.  These things all impact the budget. Right now, managers and supervisors have hiring worksheets that gives some flexibility.  We aren’t going to take this anywhere here right now.  Wait for negotiations. 18 hired LPN’s and 21 lost. Across the board. Not including transfers. 

  5. Trans: OT, (one work area)-Tim-brought up fact only utilizing day and evening shift when giving out OT and not the night shifts.  How can they exclude nocs?  Days and nights considered different work areas.-Cates. Only done in transition.  Excluding by work areas. Been going on for over two years. Advanced OT only. Gresczyk-good timing for this. Management has right to identify the work area as long as it doesn’t change bidding rights of employees.  We need to either change work area or practice and follow.  Do evaluation of all MSH and figure out practice and are we following the contract. We all are to follow the contract.  If we all agree, we need to talk about how to change the language or agree to follow practice.  Cates-inversing follows the exact language so we are choosing which one to use.  Gresczyk-we need to have a group get together and figure out where it is and isn’t being followed and make an educated move on how to do this.  Tim-how do we grieve or not. What do we go by until then?  Carol-Transition has always done this. MSH is also not in line for what it says for overtime. Scott- we don’t use work areas how language is used. We use capable and qualified.  As long as I can remember.  I’m wondering if I am following. Carol- I would like to pause and have a small group come together and decide if we stay with current practice etc. Gresczyk-I agree we aren’t following the language.  Let’s start work now and what we want it to look like.  If you grieved it we have to use the literal language.  We grant and change it etc.  Kurt-there are grievances over inverses right now. If someone gets inversed from nocs to days….advanced vs subsequent. Gresczyk-if I get through everyone I can assign but we generally go through the sign up after this.  Included capable staff on duty…work area key. Can staff grieve it? Gresczyk-yes you can grieve, it isn’t following contract.  We will change practice across the board.  But we can work together on this issue and fix the practice.  Kurt-supervisors are able to define diff work areas.  Is there a way we can just go through seniority list until this is figured out? Combine work areas for OT purposes? Gresczyk—I don’t know so I can’t give you an answer right now. Tim-goes back to class, capable and qualified. Wouldn’t we stick to that? Inverses stick to seniority list which sticks to class (404) doesn’t this clarify?  Carol-I would like to stick to what do we owe you an answer to. Gresczyk-do you want a work group or wait until bargaining? Tim-stick to bargaining table. Further conversation later.

  6. FNH: Security/Nursing use of private companies, OT list, ICS, breaks etc.-hired vs loss ratio-hiring problem and losing people-Cindy-this is data thing. Overall, are you looking for data by class and program?  Tim-yes, its sends a red flag. Are we doing everything we can for hiring and keeping nurses? Gresczyk-is it helpful for hired and lost for each job class in each program? Tim- I think it would. Gresczyk-we can get you that info but won’t cover transfers, bids.

  7. Workers comp issues-Carol-we find jobs for people on restrictions. If someone has gotten hurt and has restrictions. We try to place them in same rotation if possible. But if they can’t be, we will find a place to work because that’s what they want but they may change. Will talk more on this at meeting on 2-17

  8. Days off added to job postings-postings didn’t have days off on postings.  Has been fixed.

  9. Utility Pool: vacation and days off-Scott-working well right now to cover needs. No changes planned for use. Waiting to see what happens with our ask. Not changing days off.  We used to cover needs which usually happens on weekends. Vacation ratio is same as units.  1 per 10 staff in compliment.  UP has around 18 staff right now. Hiring pool works with utility pool. Not permanent positions and can’t use vacation. 1 per 10 is general guideline.  Work areas for vacation 17 per day on day and evening shift.

  10. MSH hiring pool FTE update-Scott-5 control numbers for hiring. 0 right now. Everyone has gone to a position. Working well. Used to get people trained. On schedule they are in the float pool. Operations use as utility pool. Hiring pool is used to make sure we keep track of who is in there.  Falls under hiring pool MOU.

  11. Admissions Unit: staffing levels-Not having consistent nurse. Scott-depends on the acuity of the unit and census back there. Not seeing any change in practice with construction moves. Carol-monitor use of restraints in the area, times where we needed a nurse.  Heard its working well. Minimal use of restraints. Have a shortage of RNS as well so we need to deploy when necessary.  Kurt-is there someone staff can call when they need one? Carol-yes.

  12. Campus security: future, FTE’s-NOC shift being down to 2. Struggles with shortage of staff being inversed. Scott-not aware of inversing of the campus position. I get called before any inversing. I have not been called for that inverse. Haven’t thought about it only being a pool of two. Carol-we will take a look at it.  Tim-is there an increase in footwear allowance? Gresczyk-that is something that is negotiated. So something to keep in mind.  Isn’t an allowance unless there is something you are requiring.  Carol-we can follow up on that.  Carol-campus security will remain. Our budget requested additional campus security.  If we don’t get it, we have to look at the budget and how we manage it. No additional dollars right now. Tim-why is security and control not together.  Carol-they are both very unique but there is always the possibility at looking into that. That is TC’s area. Scott-this could be a good way to help staffing.  New boards will require additional training but this is something to think about going forward.  Gresczyk-and how do people remained trained if they haven’t been there for say 3 months. James- some staff don’t want to be in both pools. So this is a balancing act. Carol-for us to monitor this inversing and replacement footwear and high visibility clothing is what we are looking at.

  13. MSH OT: advance, call out list, MAPE vs Bargaining 204 and rescinding OT-Carol-at times using MAPE prior to inverse? Equal desire to go away from that. I get pressure from small programs that it helps with their inversing.  So I am careful of doing this but I am not going to pin one program against another.  Smaller programs like this.  Tim-we are getting everyone else before our 404 not being offered prior to the RPA’s getting the OT….Carol-this shouldn’t happen where an afscme employee is being skipped over.  Scott-working with history. Had rough summers. We are trying to address OT and inversing issues.  People were even complaining when there was none available.  We started these practices to alleviate strain. Now there are positives but it is complicating things.  I want to make sure that when an afscme staff is getting an afscme OT.  Sometimes an OD may mess up by mistake. Carol-we kind of opened the door for this but I will reexamine that.  Kurt-can we make sure that mape doesn’t get it until afscme is exhausted? Carol and Scott- we will reexamine and it may result in someone not liking it.  Carol-do we take mape off the list? Tim-it gets so mudded up. James-some OD’s saying they got go ahead for calling outside building- Scott-if OD’s have time and can look at sign up list I told them they can do that but I don’t mandate it because an OD can have it all good to go and then last minute they get sick calls.  So they can’t go through all those steps again. So if they have time, but sometimes it can be messed up. They have always had the option I just don’t require it. Marvin-OD’s are assigning OT to staff without contacting them, maybe only an email. 

  14. AFSCME vs MNA OT/inversing issues within CRP, FNH, and Trans.-Tim-hearing a lot of MNA scheduled to counselor role. When not able to fulfill, its afscme scheduled back into that need.  Classifications back with bargaining agreement. It is defined within our 204. Mgmt. sees employees, so this encompasses all of the classifications and is causing confusion. Cindy-from employer, might have classes from diff bargaining units that could be filled by others due to licenses.  Where we could use RNs or LPNs in this case.  James-they keep changing the numbers.  Tim-we get posted vs non posted schedule.  Appointing authority saying here is our need.  Now it’s posted within 14 day period. RN calls sick with the 14 day period.  History of afscme being inversed into that MNA position. Carol-we will not agree on this.  When we are looking at postings, we don’t know what we have going on that 1 RN can’t do it, Admissions etc. We are going to post with 2 and LPNs, counselor, etc. we get to that night and RN calls in sick. We don’t have new admits etc. so we don’t need to have another RN. So we just need a counselor.  Tim-that’s fine and what we refer to acuity.  Every time this has occurred, the unit needs just 4 unless more are needed. If we know 4 needed, why is it not posted outside the pay period and within it? Then we won’t be inversing.  Carol-we have so many FTEs of RNs that need full time hours.  We aren’t going to supplement with 3 more counselors, so if by the schedule it works out to only need 3 counselors, I’m not going to cover 4 just to have them.  I will inverse to what I need to cover the unit based on what I am needing.  Tim-seems we are carrying MNA burden.  Staff see RNs in counselor roles on the unit but then sees inversing to cover an RN.  Gresczyk-let’s start with sharing all of the information with afscme. Aside from that, we are not going to agree that RNs will be inversed for RN’s and vice versa for everything.  We will inverse RN’s for LPNs is some situations as well. At end of day, there is an RN that is over their hours, we have to have someone.  Tim-staff are seeing the logistics of MNA managing MNA.  Carol-not opposed to coming to every m and C with all of this information so you can show your members what is going on.  Tim-3rd day off so when we do grieve it, it’s not being honored. It’s been recognized but when it gets filed. The appointed authority gets to choose.  Gresczyk-both of those are going to happen.  It is a violation to mandate before days off with exception of emergency. Our obligation is to define what that situation was. If you say there was an emergency, what was it? Tim-can we see there acuity tool so we can know when we should grieve.  Tim-we asked for protocol used for justifying their decisions.  Put merit behind the tool and distribute the overtime list. These are tools we need to see.  Gresczyk-we have heard of RNs making decisions about inversing.  We have remedied in certain situations.  Steward comes forward with a complaint and then we can come back in the moment.  But to come to a meeting a month later isn’t going to help and manage the performance.  So if you could bring this forward immediately we can figure out what happened rather than months later. Scott-we need roughly 11 to 1200 hours a day to run MSH counselors. When you look at the OT and inversing it shows how many are needed (graph hand out).  I can look at an individual day due to what we have going on.  Going into 2017 I feel it has improved in accuracy.  Carol-we compare vacant shifts, acuity needs. Etc.

  15. OSHA training-Tim-Kurt is going to work with council 5 and management about this. 2 hour class. If there is anything that helps management out with scheduling let us know.  It’s an OSHA training for everyone through OSHA across DCT. Scott-learning and development would be good to contact, Ryan Chakuske.

  16. The grievance process-How has response time been? Kurt-one needed extension on a 24 in 48 because someone worked 1 more hour.  Gresczyk-its fair for the staff to receive the information about why it was or wasn’t an approved grievance.  When it is something like X’s and 0’s why ask for an extension.  Gresczyk-I wanted to know more information before I make a response and sign it.  There are certain things I am obligated to have done before I send it to MMB.  I gave the explanation the 7 and a half is for scheduled shifts.  MMB weighed in and she responded that they agreed with DHS. Anything that requires payment there is a form that does calculations. I have to sign this as DHS.  In what situations do we go to 1 2 and 3 step grievances? Gresczyk-Tough to respond to such a broad topic. HR represent management on grievances related to the contract.  Tim-how do we streamline? Greyshdk-you are right, when it is inconsistent, we need to communicate when grievances are inconsistent between programs. Tim-is the paperwork consistent now for investigations? Gresczyk-the forms are attached on the website now.  Cates-are you allowing stewards to sit subject and non-subject investigations right now. Gresczyk-no HR-only sending letters for discipline to Tim. Do you want me to send them to others? Tim-as long as we are getting the notice.  Marvin-And also CC the steward who was sitting the investigation.  Gresczyk-good idea.  Tim-send and disciplines to me and Matt.

  17. Policy Process-How to know what policies are coming up for review.-Carol-we are posting on SharePoint before they take affect

  18. Time Entry Codes-pay code piece is with MMB.  Cindy all grievances are complete.  There is a code for military leave.

  19. Forensics SharePoint: Incident, supplemental and first report of injury-in one packet. Carol-one more upgrade to SharePoint. I am going to wait until they are done to post more. Scott-some units share points have disappeared. Our intent is for each unit to have own SharePoint.  Easier if residential has a spot because each of those has to be managed. 

  20. Critical Incident review-automatically notified of any future reviews, involved.  Carol-we should be bringing people that were involved in the incident to talk about how to improve.  Not something to just involve the union just to have them there.  But if an afscme staff is involved, they would be involved and they can bring it back to the union. It’s not about performance, it’s about the incident and improving. If we use a video, we do it carefully and meet with the individual first to see if it’s ok.  If they are not ok with it, we don’t. Scott-what we did is only use video for the people that were there.  Not my intent to have the video there. It’s difficult and sensitive.  Not sure if it will be used again.


New Business


  1. Forensic SC/SCL title changes-

  2. Forensic programs: AFSCME local 404, barg, unit 204 (PD’s)

  3. Forensic programs: Operational org charts

  4. Forensic programs: Management to staff ratios including MNA

  5. Forensic programs: utilization of the barg. Unit 204 classification

  6. Forensic programs: staff orientation & training-CRP and MSH. Staff confused by competency. Training is same across the board.  We thought it was different but it’s not.  Its OJT is where it’s different.  Why can we not utilizing everyone? CRP staff say it’s little to nothing as different.  Shouldn’t there just be a piece that you just read and sign off on?

  7. Forensic programs: Hay Study-Gresczyk-not something employees have ability to request.  Method used to create classifications. At inception of every title is a hay study.  Someone says this job will have these duties.  Audit. Someone looks at all the duties and says this is the classification. When it’s unique we do a hay study to create a new classification.  If they are fit in another class, then that is just a job audit.  Looking at the PD to see if this fits. There is cross over within the classes (Gresczyk) there is work that is crossed over.  It’s not the majority of your work. RNs and LPNs happens all the time but there is a lot of things RNs can only do.  There is no audit but they may be asked to do that work.  Hay is a company.

  8. Licensing Update

  9. Forensic Lead Leveling

  10. Forensic interview and hiring process

  11. MSH Pt. internet policy

  12. 2017 skills fairs

  13. CRP OT/Inversing distribution list

  14. CRP approved FTE’s

  15. CRP vacancies

  16. CRP vacation days offered/distribution


Communication: All other things held over till next month

New org chart is on SharePoint

Meeting adjourned at 245 PM