October 2020 FMHP Meeting Minutes

AFSCME Labor Management MSH

October 15, 2020  1230PM

Administration Building


Attendance: Adam Castle, Steve Wilking, Eric Hesse, Alex Flores, Ryan Cates, Kurt Crosby, Emilio Florez, Annie Jakacki, Scott Melby, Marvin Sullivan, Alli Kuhlman, Carol Olsen, Roxanne Portner, Becky Robinson, Michelle Chalin


Reflection/Celebration: Carol-Working hard to improve safety on the campus. We received an award for safety. I will send a copy of the certificate and what they look for. Kudos to everyone.

Kurt- Reaching out to staff, including management on campus and putting together a toy drive for local kids. Everyone got on board. Promoting good will and unity.

Standing Agenda Items:

  1. Osha Information-Handouts
  2. 2.      Overtime Information-Handouts

Old Business


  1. Ironwood and Juniper: Becky-Ironwood went live yesterday and are now transporting patients. We are moving slower this time around. Juniper will not be occupied yet. May need for quarantine in the future.
  2. Gloves: Carol-I posted the information on the SharePoint site about locations of gloves. If we get different gloves, the information will change and will be updated. Marvin-The issue was we had nitrile not for medical/protective use. People need to know those are to be used to distribute food, etc.


  1. 1.      Hazard Pay: Cates-Any progress as far as administration and HR doing anything? Denise-I don’t know anyone has done anything. It is a labor call. Information I received is AFSCME needs to drive that through MMB process. I have not done anything or heard. Every week I ask Annie if she has heard anything. It doesn’t come from the state. If AFSCME comes to MMB and they come to us, we could have some input but that hasn’t happened. Alex-anything wrong with management coming out and supporting? Denise-I’m not saying we wouldn’t be in support but MMB hasn’t come to us. Statewide issue. not just 404. It’s a much bigger issue than just AFSCME. Alex-Would you support hazard pay for our membership? Denise-that’s not our call. Alex-who would answer the question from MMB? Denise-I don’t know, whoever they would ask. Marvin-A few years back there was a huge push for funding, staffing. There was benefit for us to go to the capitol to advocate for you guys to get money. You guys can’t do that? Denise-I am not saying that, it is not at our discretion. It has implications across the state. For forensics to say we want to give members hazard pay, impacts everyone. if MMB comes to us saying we have a request for hazard pay, that is different. It needs to come to us from MMB which comes from somewhere else. There are budget issues right now. How would hazard pay affect that? It may or may not impact it. I’m not saying I am for or against either one but it has to be taken into consideration. A whole bunch of pieces have to fall into place. Denise-I wish I could give an answer but we can’t answer.
  2. 2.      COVID Issues: Cates-Camera usage has been getting reviewed live. Management calls them to remind them about masks and doing their job. These cameras were for safety then added incidents for training. Then used to look back at incidents to discipline staff. Now used to target staff and tracking staff for breaks, etc. now adding execs watching live to tell staff about their jobs. What limits are you going to put on yourselves? Talking about money but have 6 figure staff watching videos of staff doing their jobs. Scott-we have been using them to monitor mask compliance audits. Moment in time, I wasn’t aware if someone was observed that we were calling. I will do follow up on that. Have staff wear their mask. If I was auditing and saw someone doing something unsafe, I can understand why someone is following up. I am not aware of the other stuff. The only thing different is these mask audits. I will talk to the team.
  3. 3.      Budget Cuts: Cates-house passed funding for DCT yesterday. Is it what you needed? Carol-I have only seen one document. I didn’t see the dollar amount. If you did, let us know. Cates-16 million for DCT. Carol-That isn’t enough. The house ended the session. If they don’t pass in entirety, it won’t go anywhere. Steve-curious how much deficit is. Carol-it varies because we are still hoping to get some dollars associated with covid. I heard 18 to 25 million. We don’t have an approved budget yet because we don’t know what will happen with legislature.


New Business




  1. Lead List: Denise-we are looking at the process for how people get on the list. It has been discussed at meetings and we are pulling teams together to review qualifications and procedure for getting on the list. I have talked to the union and you will be included for how the process works and the qualifications. It didn’t make sense for us to open up the list before we figure that out. there isn’t a need while we revamp the process. As soon as we determine this, we will move forward with it. It is on hold right now. Cates-are we looking at a meeting soon? Denise-In the next couple of weeks we can get together. Send me a list of who you want in that meeting.
  2. Overtime Staff on Own Unit: Cates-staff should be put on own unit. You said you would do your best but it hasn’t been happening at all. Kurt-Conversation with AODS Lindsay. A staff on preapproved was put on Tamarac and willow. I found out the staff was already on another unit. I approached the AOD and asked. She said she would bring it up. Happened again and ted was AODS. Staff was pre-approved again and he refused to move us around to keep me on my unit. Just said he would look into it. This person was from security services, not unit staff. Scott-When we did problem solving for subsequent shift, we agreed to set aside preferences. It’s important to know some staff don’t want to work on own unit. We try to get staff to their preference but I think we got it fixed. People were taken out of tank before OD could get people on the right unit. I want to think its better but let me know if it isn’t. We will try to get people where they want. Kurt-We spoke about this before so its frustrating. Some will plug someone in the tank the night before if the person has worked there before. Scott-it gets tricky. People want to know where they are going so they can prepare. There are a lot of issues and trying to find the balance. Kurt-AODS pool is to only assign subsequent overtime? Scott-not only but known in advance is supported by scheduling. We have had people use the tank resources. Scott-If OD gets busy, they partner with scheduling. The ODS are doing that day because there are a lot of moving parts.
  3. Hospital Coverage with 1 Staff: Cates-was that communicated to membership? Carol-I communicate to the 4 of you and then the AODS. AODS is acting on my behalf. Exec on call. In view of this, we will reduce to one staff for the patient. I send it to them. And I sent it to the eboard. I didn’t communicate broadly on campus. I expect people to trust the direction from me when I communicate to the AODS office. Cates-confusion is with policy and then AODS office directs something else. As far as AODS office. We had an issue at MOSP where staff got in trouble for listening to the OD. Carol-I don’t know what happened in MSOP but I gave the direction to cover with 1 staff. It will fall on me. If AODS got the communication from me to give to the staff that are covering. If something happens would staff have questions? Yes, but if they use their 15-minute break to go to the bathroom, they have support from my email to aods pool to support. We don’t need to communicate broadly to everyone. it was a change in direction from policy, so I sent it out the way I did. I don’t mind clarification but we need to trust direction where it is coming. I don’t feel I have an obligation to send to the eboard. Cates-can we do something else if this sort of thing happens again so staff aren’t nervous. Hesse-maybe a SharePoint. Marvin-or have AODS hand out the email to the coverage staff. Carol-we have hospital coverage on the safety agenda. I did get a communication out to AODS and said please send this out to the next coverage staff. Cates-that didn’t happen. Something on paper would be helpful.
  4. Hospital Coverage Hours: Marvin-in July I sent an email to management and have not heard a word back. We are back in these weird shifts. Going into 3 shifts in a row. I was looking for honest discussion and no response. Carol-I thought we had agreed in interest-based problem solving. I apologize, I didn’t realize it wasn’t back on the agenda. We got your suggestion but I rely on others to look at how to manage schedules. I thought you were going to bring it to interest-based problem solving. Marvin-only response was that you were sending it to HR and never heard. Problem based problem is falling off the board here. We are wasting money doing it this way while in a budget crisis. Scott-I also thought we would be talking about it in interested based. I understand your point of you. The current process is so we don’t inverse more than 20 hours. I don’t want to make changes to something but I am happy to take to interest based problem solving. Marvin-Its frustrating this came up 3 months ago. As a tax payer, its frustrating. Inversing goes up with hospital coverage than when we ran 12 hours shifts with drive time. Scott-I hear you Marvin but it won’t change today.
  5. Transitions Float Usage: Steve-Received email from staff. Want to make sure staff and patients are safe. Looking for that 2nd float. Scott-we reached out to supervisors. It was grove a. they weren’t aware of it. has staff brought it to them? Cates-not sure. Steve-this just came to us so we are following up. It’s not an unreasonable request for additional staffing. Cates-asking for more float time on Forestview north. Scott-talk to your supervisor if there are issues at the time. If we can’t have additional staff there, we can maybe make changes to how we operate. Encourage them to bring to supervisor.
  6. Break room areas: Cates-being required to clean patients’ room after moving across the room. Patients should clean own rooms. Cleaning of general use bathrooms. Do they have to? If they are used by everyone. Everyone should or GMWs should. Shared by everyone, maintenance staff should be doing it. Scott-There are details I’m not aware of. We all need to keep areas clean. If I go into a bathroom here, I would clean it up. We don’t need to have it assigned. In terms of cleaning, some staff will assist patients with cleaning. It needs to be addressed by the team. We are all responsible for keeping our common areas clean.
  7. Work Area Document: Steve-nowhere does it say what the defined work area is for SC and SC lead. The asterisk leads me to believe the work area is a work unit. Carol-I’m not sure what document you are referencing. We had grievances with LPNs covering and it got updated. Alli forwarded the forensic work areas. Alli-I can get that to carol. Since they bid to work unit like Tamarac or willow. My understanding with management is for overtime would be program wide. That is why we were delineating it that way. Scott-that is accurate Alli. Steve-So, defined work area fore SC and lead is FMHP. Vacation is based on FMHP as a whole. With the asterisk, can you indicate in a better way to state that SC and leads work area is FMHP? Alli-there can be a review of the language. Just wanted to state that the unit would stay the same. There are ways we can play with the wording. We will look at it. Steve-with what you said that would match with our language. I don’t understand with that asterisk. Take it back and re clarify please. If you are defining as FMHP, as I read the asterisk and the heading it seems the work unit is the defined work area. Carol-we can take it back and change it.
  8. AFSCME Local 404 Exclusive Representation: Cates-In covid meetings we have been asking for larger masks for months. We heard supervisors are told to ask staff if they want bigger masks. We are the exclusive representatives for our staff. By going around, us, you are bypassing the process. We are elected and you have to listen to us. Going directly to our staff isn’t following the process. Carol-I saw this coming from more than just AFSCME. We didn’t intend for it to happen that way. Becky-I understood that supervisor ask about the quantity needed. Into the future does that come back to exclusive representation? Cates-The way I was told if people wanted or needed them. Scott-I do work with logistics team. Looking at the numbers for need. Carol asked to do that as requested by exclusive representatives. Annie-we understand the limited supply. The way staff were asked was if this is really an issue? It was more of a confirmation to see if it’s a real issue. Carol-That was not my intention yesterday in the meeting. Cates-it didn’t come from the meeting at all. From reports before that. Scott-I hear you and I’m sorry if someone thought we were questioning it. Intent was to find out how many we needed.


Add Ons

  1. NOC Reassignments: Cates-Split up into 2 areas into res and utility pool. In January it was brought up and you said looking at it. then covid happened and now it just happened again with no more discussions. Found out after the bidding, you split up into 2 different days off schedule. When staff were offered by email to pick, they weren’t told there were two different options. They made choice without all of the information. It wasn’t done correctly. It was rushed, not discussed. It went into effect yesterday. Marvin-when we talked about it, we talked about what it would look like to figure out days off. Denise-My understanding is the deadline got extended. I know people were given many chances to ask questions. The way it was set up the days off were separate. Some people were aware of it and are fine with it based on the information given. I assume you are hearing from people who I didn’t get what they wanted. Cates-Its not hearing from people. When I hear they were given different days off, labor had no idea what it meant. Marvin-you brought it to the table and said you would have more conversation, now its just being done. Denise-I am hearing more today so I don’t have all the answers. My understanding was two different pools. It did get extended because Liz was on vacation. We can look into and talk more. I need more information from Liz. Send me your concerns about what you are hearing. I want to see the emails that went out. Kurt-we will do that. The reason you were putting them together was to make the same work area because of inversing on CRP. Emilio-the point was to make them one, now you are separating them by days off which undermines the merge in the first place. Marvin-we agreed to meet about it then you just turn around and do it. Denise-I don’t know guys. January for me was ages ago. I will have to go back and look at it. I will meet with management and talk about. Emilio-No one on the Eboard was aware this happened. Denise-Understood. We will talk about it.
  2. Supervisor Comment that we are punching bags and expected to get hurt: Steve-I have heard this has come from other supervisors as well. I want our members to hear that regardless of position, no one is above the employee code of conduct. These comments aren’t appropriate. Roxanne-I will follow up with this. I want to seek clarification. There were quotes placed in the voice of the individual. And claims how it made that person feel. We have all been in this situation around patient care and safety. I am trying to figure out if the statements and how they related to the situation. How did it relate? Cates-we don’t know how it was said. Steve-A brief conversation was had. This affected a lot of people that heard it. Based on the tone and feel everyone had, it was unsettling. If something happens once, it is what it is. They said it a couple months earlier and it was let go. When it is said multiple times, it’s not appropriate. I’m not defending these comments ever, but within an intense moment, things are said. This was not made during a critical incident. Roxanne-these are not stress-free situations. Steve-I mean during the altercation, it is different than in a morning meeting. I’m not defending the comments but I don’t want to minimize them either. Not acceptable in a DCT facility. Roxanne-It is not the expectation working here. I want to honor that at times, words can be absorbed differently. Collectively as a group, they were offended by those comments and I have followed up with that supervisor. Steve-I appreciate that.
  3. Atlas Randomly removing staff’s overtime and/or vacation: Steve-Atlas is randomly dropping ovettime assingmnetns, etc. Jodi is aware of this apparently. It is dropping shifts and vacations then have to go back and prove they had it. Scott-I will follow up with Jodi.
  4. Grove Leader Title Changes: Marvin-Rumor of title changes. Any changes? Becky-No, in terms of working titles. Reminder is there are review periods. Updates are made on badges. Conversations of how to describe who comprises unit-based supervisors as far as RNS and who is leadership in terms of RNAs and clinical directors so when we talk to each other, we are calling each other such. Titles may be proposals I have heard. Marvin-Rumor is we are going away from Grove leaders. Becky-feedback I heard was they be considered leadership in their groves. In order to emphasize partnership, they suggested to be defined as grove leadership. They are all grove leadership. We are open to suggestions. Marvin-it changes mindset.
  5. LPN Shift IN Progress: Do you only consider LPN pool or include RN too. Roxanne-LPN is now one big pool because they are in different bargaining units. We look where the extras are and that isn’t very often. If we have extra LPN and no one wants to leave, we may allow an RN to leave. Cates-So RNs are able to take overtime but if LPN wants to go home, they aren’t good enough to cover for the RN. Roxanne-it’s the process, I don’t see any changes.

Management Add On:

  1. Becky-supplemental report from a supervisor had some damage to their door lock intentionally. A staple was stuck into the door lock. It was working on Friday and on Monday it wasn’t. physical plant said it could not have been done unintentionally. Any idea why this would have happened? Resetting expectations and communications that we respect one another. We will be talking to other labor as well. Cates-we agree. did patients have access? Becky-patients don’t have access. Only staff. Primary staff area. We aren’t going to pursue it any further.
  2. Michelle-Designated card reader for staff to scan their badges. When we first did that, we designated a certain card reader. We have moved shift report so we will move the designated card reader to the door closest to where the shift report is moved. We have signs up right now and will communicate that to staff.
  3. Scott-I messaged Jodi. Some overtime posts have dropped due to staff calling in sick that day. Manual adjustments are made for picking up inverses and overtime that day. She will need to fix the atlas issues. Atlas thinks its against the rules right now.
  4. Becky-I have asked Jodi, Tracy, and Karen to have conversations with supervisors of Bartlett about staffing needs after moving patients. We are planning for birch and cedar having one unit of a staff from 2 north. Jodi is going to work on redistributing PCNs for staff to bid into. Steve-B2S to birch. B2N to cedar? Becky-yes, we will continue to review as we move forward. Just wanted to give you a heads up. Steve-Birch staffing 4, Cedar 4. What about aspen? Becky-we asked Jodi to do 3 to 3 and 4 to 4 compared to 26 for other units. This is a proposal right now, it’s not for sure.



Meeting Adjourned at 210PM