October 2019 MSH Meeting Minutes

AFSCME Labor Management MSH

October 17, 2019 1230PM

Administration Building


Attendance: Adam Castle, Marvin Sullivan, Emilio Florez, Ryan Cates, Steve Wilking, Kurt Crosby, Eric Hesse, Lisa Vanderveen, Alli Kuhlman, Matt Stenger, Crystal Kreklow, Denise Considine, Scott Melby, Emilio Florez


Reflection/Celebration: Cates-Parking lot is finished along with the speedbumps.

Standing Agenda Items:

  1. Osha Information-Handouts from Alli.
  2. 2.      Overtime Information-Handouts from Alli.

Old Business:




  1. 1.      Nurses Covering Direct Care Positions: Cates-Asking for update. Told this wasn’t going to happen but have been doing this since. Scott-without Roxanne here I can’t give update. FNH we have staffing issues there. We are being creative but I think we want to have the licensed positions doing the work. We may get very short and have to be creative. We can’t say it won’t happen in the future. Comes down to numbers.
  2. 2.      LPN OT Unfairly Being Given to RNs: Cates-LPNs not being given the OT. RNs are more expensive. LPNs should be getting the overtime even if having to call out. Alli-asking for meeting with Roxanne and ted. She wanted to talk through the process instead of grievance rote. Meeting is scheduled for next Friday the 25th. Cates-usually call out the whole sheet, now there is two creating problems. AODS is having problems. Scott-I am working on it and we have open grievances right now. We are looking at it right now.
  3. 3.      Former CRP Unit Shifts Should match MSH units due to inversing, OT, and coverage: Cates-staff being inversed after 930. MSH instead of CRP staff because they aren’t available until 10. More seniors are forced to stay. Overnight saying they are being inversed into days because they are here till 730. Lisa-we agree and we are working on being consistent for best shifts to support. Matt-no CRP staff able to attend weekly trainings skills fair because it started half hour before shift. Lisa-have been able in the past. Marvin-was one and 2 now at 130 and 230. Matt-why taking so long to switch to it. Carrie Archer is also agreeing with us but the powers that be aren’t. Lisa-I agree, we agree that consistent shifts make sense. We don’t know what those shifts should be. We want to be thoughtful. Matt-while we establish that can we be moved to same shift as MSH? People inversed out of seniority. Negatively impacts the shift. Simple. Lisa-we won’t do that and move people again. I hope we can solve this soon. Marvin-moving campus wide? Lisa-possibly. Scott-we want to do this right. I am aware of the concerns. We agree we want consistency but there are different positions. We own this and the delay. I am sorry for the complication. Are we seeing this at security services? Matt-no, just the inverses. Cates-we cover groves in CRP and inversed there. Kurt-they get to by choice, not forced to.
  4. 4.      Chain of Command in former CRP units/RNs or supervisors directing FSS Staff: Cates-RN supervisors directing FSS staff. Steve-potential example is elm got absorbed into model of hickory and north campus. When they operated daily, and absorbed elm in new structure, nurses would direct floor staff. But when you take elm, you took direction from AODS office. So now how is this handled? Lisa-I get what you are saying. There were different practices, we are working through this. Nursing roles and responsibilities and clarifying for groves….this has been a learning experience. Kurt-concerns years ago were some of the hardships. Staff have been here a long time and now you are taking orders from a nurse that just got out of school, this can cause problems. This can be part of the issue as well. Lisa-we are striving for collaboration. They are not supervisory. Matt-it has gone closer to MSH way. RNs not really managing like they used to. Scott-we will keep monitoring. Collaboration works best. Encourage staff to talk to person who signs the time entry if they have questions about this.

New Business:


  1. 1.      Nursing Schedules: Alli-interest from LPN to collaborate in work group to look at different scheduling options. Cates-yes, absolutely. Matt-nursing across the board? Alli-I believe so. Scott-we all know that 24 hour scheduling is a pain. It doesn’t stem from a situation. MNA has similar issues. Roxanne wants to make sure LPNs are involved in the conversation. Scott-I’m thinking it encompasses all sorts of stuff. Comes down to implementation. No one has an agreement on the best way to do our shifts. We don’t have our minds made up. Roxanne wants to hear from everyone. Cates-volunteers? Alli-yes, anyone who is interested. Let Roxanne know if you are interested.


  1. 1.      LPNs and Groves/RNs kept in groves, any plans for LPNs: Alli-Roxanne said everything is staying the same. If there is a shift, she would let you guys know.
  2. 2.      FNH Leads/process for choosing: Cates-process was odd. Put a lot of people on a committee and then they chose regardless of anything else. We request the scores for the interviews of applicants. Allie-in writing? Cates-yes. Kurt-people on NOCS upset they were left out. There is a divide. Less leads on NOCS than anywhere else. Why don’t they get the opportunity? Scott-I don’t have an answer right now. We will do some leg work on that. Could just be dollars?
  3. 3.      Work Unit not being included in posting: Cates-FMHP not where it was. No one knew where it was. Should still specify. Matt-supervisor listing was only way people figured it out. Marvin-is this the way we are going? Changed to grove B instead of department. Units or go to groves? Lisa-no plans for people to function within the groves. We had to go that way to get staff to group for time entry. Alli-we did an update for new names instead of like 300. It’s easier for us to have the broad name. Marvin-I get it but people perceive that. Scott-posting is vague. Cates-people think groves instead of units is the concern. Scott- I understand but that is not what we are doing. Matt-can we repost the one that went out? Alli-maybe we can reopen it but I will talk to staffing first. I will look into it.
  4. 4.      GMW Unit Cleaning Changes: Cates-the way they clean has changed. Now is individual. I haven’t heard many complaints but in the future when something is changed, keep afscme informed? Scott-email to whom? Cates-myself. Scott-I don’t always know what will make people happy and to reach out. They changed the crews to be more together? Cates-no, more separate and safety issue. Scott-that’s fine to bring it to the table to talk about it. Reach out to me or patty and that is ok. Emilio-we will reach out to Dan and Adam as well.
  5. 5.      Supervisors Messaging negative comments about our members:
  6. 6.      Unit Movement plans/Hickory, Redwood, and Prairie View: Cates-I was told it’s not cancelled just delayed but the units are saying they aren’t being moved. Lisa-I heard the rumors too. Moves will take place. Still plan for hickory to forest view south. Timelines have been changed. Forest view south will take a bit longer due to seclusion room hardware. Potential all units on east and south will be done at same time. Going back to drawing board and want to share the scenarios. Take patients whom they can take form hickory and serve mi patients and maybe some from Anoka. Contemplating if patient and transition can be there as well. Matt-sup in hickory said it’s possible we won’t be moving. Lisa-timeline seems to be misunderstood. Scott-basically we are waiting on the hardware and so the timelines have been pushed back. Encourage people to talk with supervisors. If we are missing something, you may check something we missed. Marvin-we have noticed that depending on which person you talk to, you get different answers. Scott-then it’s on us to let them. Know. It changes by the day, look at the parking lot issue.
  7. 7.      Atlas Update: Alli-sharepoint announcement for android user but no date for iPhone yet. She will talk to the developer and get the information out. Marvin-I heard it is working on iPhone.
  8. 8.      FMHP NOC Scheduling: and 10. Kurt-NOCS instance 15 coverage staff on. When they used to plug in, they would explain why and use strengths. Lately, 15 to choose from and some placed who never work and one regular. You want to put people places where they can succeed. I don’t know the answer but I want you to be aware. It needs to be addressed. This was not that big of a deal until late.
  9. 9.      FSS Days Off: Kurt-I took lead spot on days. Nothing in description about days off. We couldn’t have sat/sun off. I put in for Thursday/Friday off and was denied. I can mutual days off to get it off but contract says days off by seniority. Scott-when it comes to leads, we are responsible for scheduling staff and allocating days off we can absorb. Need to make sure we don’t have too many off. Consensus many would like sat/sun off but we can’t do that. Over the years, there have been a lot of changes with this. The number of leads on a shift, how many per unit, etc. We want to make sure we have the lead coverage. Experience and seniority is what I get from you. Now I want to make sure I have that coverage. We have the ability to say leads don’t have the same day off. Having two with same is acceptable, three isn’t. In order to get what we want is to schedule like this. It’s a benefit to us. Kurt-I appreciate that. During the week there is a lot of experience with all of us. Contractually it says by seniority. That need you describe, we have a lot of them on weekends. No grove leaders that work weekends, don’t we want to be safe across the board? Kurt-there are no GS or other professional staff that are required to be on every weekend, so why AFSCME leads, we do not supervise AFSCME. Scott-we won’t ever agree. We have had other leads in your position. This is my rationale and I feel its solid and I’m sorry it’s not working for you.

Add Ons:

  1. 1.      Luadermill Hearings: Cates-no longer getting responses to labor. Denise-Majority of time we try to give response at laudermill in moment. Matt-depends on who does the laudermill as well. Marvin-I hadn’t seen a response and I reached out and Patrick told me we aren’t getting those. Cates-we just need to file a grievance, that’s why we need to know. Cates-Staffing the laudermills. An HR rep that wouldn’t allow more than 1 rep. there is no limit. Matt-usually just to take notes or training. Denise-Let me check on that.
  2. 2.      FNH part time to full time: Cates-we are ok with it but dot want anyone to be forced. Voluntary only. Scott-that’s appropriate. We have been trying to figure out what we can do. If .8 are interested in full time we can work with you guys on that. Some like the flexibility to mutualling to stay .8.
  3. 3.      Nursing asked to sign waiver on hazardous material/hazard pay: Cates-Waiving away any recourse. These should be voluntary but being told to sign these. Scott-I didn’t know the standards for these medications. I wasn’t aware of the waiver. Marvin-the concern is the wording saying that you have never administered these meds prior to this. Some have signed and would like it back. They didn’t feel they had a choice. Matt-confusion they are signing this but steps to protect won’t be implemented until December. Scott-best I can do is to say I will look into it. Cates-we are telling everyone not to sign it. (Scott reading the memo) Scott-thanks for bringing this forward and we will look into this. Marvin-what about the ones that have signed it? Scott-that nurse could send email to supervisor to inform they want it removed. Denise nods yes. Scott-I think it is fair. Crystal-if the sup says no contact you? Scott-yes, if that occurs, or Lisa.
  4. 4.      AODS Pool: Kurt-there are growing pains. They are notified of scheduling and didn’t cover it. They informed AODS they would need coverage but they wouldn’t call till 4am. That means it rolls into 3 shifts in a row. Why didn’t they inverse in building to cover? Things brought to attention, they don’t use that information. I don’t know if it’s because they feel they are being told what to do? They respond negatively. Seems some of them don’t want to listen to what you say. Scott-they report to me, I give direction. There are times you can’t anticipate things thrown their way. I get positive emails on a situation and the same day I will get a negative one. I don’t want them to be argumentative with staff but you also have to understand there are a lot of issues. If staff feel they aren’t being heard, you can come to me. Scott-AODS are not expected to go to all incidents. They have other things they need to do also. Ask the AOD to be there if you need them. Scott-AODS is an expansion of what was working well. Kurt-sometimes they don’t have a phone, use the radio for it. Crystal-was there information that GS may not have a phone on them? Kurt-No. Scott-I can if we think it will be helpful. Night sups didn’t normally call until lie 430am. Some situations when they reach to AODS and knew they were short. Has there been a directive they can’t call till 430. Nights isn’t afforded that at all for overtime. Scott-A lot of history, maybe it was a directive 20 years ago. I have not given that directive. Not that I am aware of. I am not the only boss around here.
  5. 5.      Recycling Containers/Styrofoam Cups: Scott-particular areas? Cates-more so my area in the new buildings. Scott-I will see what I can do. Cates-can we get rid of Styrofoam cups and bowls? Scott-I also don’t use it, we go through a lot of cups. I was always told it was a cost issue. Is paper cheaper? Marvin-yes. Scott-I will check into it.
  6. 6.      CNA Coverage/HSSS: Cates-other classes could. One HSSS is a CAN but he was told he can’t voluntarily do overtime as CAN. Scott-covering 1 to 1 is different than in nursing home. We have been trying to figure out best way for CNAs to work in the perimeter. I need to double check with Carol. I’m happy to have volunteers there. Kurt-Any plans for people who want to be a CAN to get the certification? Scott-we are exploring that. Where do we get the money for it? I heard 800 dollars each. We are working on it.
  7. 7.      Plans to put flag in front of summit center: Scott-maybe


Adjourned at 147pm