November 2021 FMHP Meeting Minutes

AFSCME Labor Management MSH

November 18, 2021 1230PM

Administration Building


Attendance: Adam Castle, Ryan Cates, Annie Jakacki, Jake Schoenecker, Marvin Sullivan, Steve Wilking, Eric Manriquez, Kurt Crosby, Alex Flores, Scott Melby, Becky Robinson, Alli Kuhlman, Heather Staff, Ashley Shanley


Reflection and Celebration: Becky-All year-out vacation requests have been dealt with. It took 27 hours to complete.

Kurt-There were concerns on my unit and I feel people are feeling more welcome on the unit. People are working together. Becky-We are trying to get that going program wide.

Standing Agenda Items:

  1. Osha Information: Handouts from Alli.
  2. 2.      Overtime Information: Handouts from Alli.
  3. 3.      Budgeted Position Review: Alli-32 SC vacancies. 9 CNA vacancies. 5 HSS vacancies. 6 lpns. 2 food service part time. 1 cook and 1 cook coordinator. 1 RPA vacancy.

Old Business



  1. 1.      COVID Issues: Ryan-If staff get covid can they use workers comp? Alli-The high-risk team gets work comp looped in if in work place. They review them as well if they qualify. If they have questions, ask Dianne Rogow. Barb Nardstrom for MSOP. I don’t know if there are cases within the facility. Ryan-Staff wondering if they can get paid mileage for the testing form the hill to Patterson. Scott-It is only 3/10 of a mile to get there but I think there is a minimum. Kurt-The inconvenience to test down here. Becky-There are parameters where testing can be done. Scott-Get the information to me to look into how much they want to be reimbursed for. Ryan-Are patients tested routinely and how often? Ryan-The answer is no. Becky-It is done with point prevalence testing as put forth by DCT. Scott-Based upon when cases are happening. Its disruptive and voluntary for staff. We did it for the nursing home. Alex-Pandemic is warranted. Scott-that is why we have masks, assessments, etc. Alex-we press that but we don’t know its happening. Vaccines are around 60 percent. I wish there was more prevalence testing. Scott-when its warranted, we will do it. If we overwhelm with testing, we will be in the same spot. We will do it when its warranted. Alex-I hope those opinions matter. Scott-we look every day. Scott-There are criteria for point prevalence testing which is on our SharePoint.
  2. 2.      Grove A Vacation Spots: Ryan-HSSS are upset by limited vacation spots. It keeps getting pushed off to north campus. Sharing 1 slot on weekends and 3 during the week. 50 staff for 1 spot. Can we fix this before north campus? Becky-I will talk to Roxanne and grove leadership about the request. We are within 2 weeks of moving out there with no anticipated barriers. Steve-Rather than wait until next meet and confer, once occupied are you adding immediately? Becky-they want to see how the patterns operate but I am hearing a request to look prior to that. I can’t say it would happen immediately. Steve-They were looking at separating HSSS and LPNS, what has happened to that? Becky-I can’t say but it was part of the considerations and solutions.
  3. 3.      Vacation Availability Issues: Ryan-October 27th. People are putting in for 30 mins vacation and block the day. Later on, they make accruals and expand it to more time but only counts to accruals for the 30 mins. It is a way to sidestep the language for accruals. We are asking that we count a full shift for any amount of time requested for that shift until we can have more conversation about this. Kurt-We bargain in good faith but the program is allowing it to happen. Ryan-They can request less time but when it comes to forecasted accruals, it counts as 8 hours. Steve-So, 30 minutes still counts as 30 minutes and can take an entire a block but with atlas, it be credited to 8 hours of the audit. Scott-We all agree on the intent. We want them to be able to request an hour but we don’t want it happening for an entire year. We will look at it and see what we can do. Becky-We will get back to you on that before next meeting. I just want to make sure there aren’t any barriers. Steve-This will have to be a joint labor/management agreement. This will force a lot of people to rescind days because if you recalculate the audit, people will be over their hours. Becky-Some have been approved already. Ryan-Contractually if you are over, you can take back from farthest out or give the option themselves first. Kurt-This is outside of contract because nothing speaks to atlas. Scott-We will get to work on this.
  4. 4.      N95 Fit Testing: Ryan-People that can’t or refuse the test. Any update? Scott-No update. This impacts all of the state so we have to be consistent. Waiting for MMB. Steve-In relation to the video about not being contagious and masks not protecting. Any removal of that? Becky-Roxanne didn’t include information about changes but she did take it to DCT command post. Scott-I will work on it.

New Business


  1. 1.      MSOP SP/Forensics Security Counselor Job Posting-50353: Alli-The external job posting was updated. We want to notify labor if staff is looking to refer and can point them to the new number. Came about because msop and forensics have been using spark hire for SC interviews. DCT contracted to conduct video interviews to be more convenient for potential hires. Quicker turn around for new staff hires. Scott-We want to find candidates where we can. when it works for them. We will pilot it here at msop site. We are hoping this will help hire quickly. Marvin-I heard from someone looking to apply. It’s included with msop and have we thought about separating that? Scott-It’s the same classification but different titles. With spark, it is clear on what you are applying for. I have been told I can’t separate that. Alli-Based on classification being the same and bidding across. If interested in classification at either, you would have to apply to each of those. Its good feedback that some are interested in one or the other. It made sense to have a consistent panel and questions. We didn’t want people to have to apply to both positions, this made it more convenient. Marvin-If this is common, it scares people off. Becky-We were able to adopt FSSS title in an effort to try to capture the work more accurately. We noticed the volume of interest for titles HSSS care consultant vs security counselor, people wanted the other title over SC. Alli-An email was sent out to staff about the lead process. Staff can apply for lead quarterly instead of annually. Scores apply for 12 months. People currently on it are good until July I believe. Scott-Bring back any feedback from your members. Alli-I think it started November 1st.


  1. 1.      Achievement Awards Nomination Form Unavailable: Ryan-Members have looked it up on the Inet and when you go into it, it says unavailable. Alli-We were made aware of that. We reached out to MMB and haven’t got an update yet. I will let you know when I hear back from MMB. Alex-Is there an alternative form? Alli-There is not at this time. It’s a set process in SharePoint. Ryan-The process isn’t contractual but achievement awards are contractual.
  2. 2.      NOC Staff Schedules: Kurt-A lot of talk about 10 hour shifts back. Wondering why nocs can’t go back when there has been other shifts proposals. Language has now been changed, we can talk about nights too, not only day shift changes. Is there opportunity to do that? Becky-My preference would be to continue this dialogue through the work group so we can have the stakeholders present and weigh pros and cons. Any pattern has to be budget neutral. Shift from 10 to 8 hours allowed us to reallocate to operate units. Ask folks where they think the funding would come from. Cost benefit analysis of 1 million a year impact couldn’t have been offset otherwise. A change that has that big of an impact is difficult. Kurt-Staff have been upset about new positions created which impacts that as well. I know the cost of those things but I also know the human costs as well. If we can talk about those things and maybe bring in some night staff to talk about it. Becky-At some point there may be disagreement about the rationale behind the decision. I don’t want to go beyond that to where it closes the possibility by inviting ongoing debate. It reiterates folks aren’t being listened to. It’s just that the outcome is not what they may want. Becky-I would like to get together with the work group. We are collecting data about what options can go on the table and then send a survey to folks interested. We want to work on pros and cons for each option. I want folks to feel comfortable that we are trying to provide objective content. Alex-How much say does management have on the budget? Becky-Every year we are able to build on the budget of previous years and then DCT goes through it. They make a decision and bring that forward as a proposal to the legislature. Then there is negotiation that occurs. DHS is then consulted for more information. We do have additional direct care positions budgeted but have not posted because we are having trouble filling present positions. Alex-So you do have input on these shift changes as related to the budget. It’s the hidden cause that doesn’t get communicated. Becky-We have been asked if we can operate on less. We have had to talk about how it was developed. We have to report to the stakeholders. They have the ability to tell us to figure it out. Jake-I advocate that you guys advocate for a half hour overlap. Becky-We are looking at those mid shifts due to that.
  3. 3.      GMW Radios for Grove A: Ryan-GMWs don’t have own radios. They are forced to look for an available one. Is it possible to get radios and charger over there? Scott-How many? Ryan-I think 2 staff at a time. They want radios and not wearing right now. Scott-I will follow up.
  4. 4.      AOD Bumping OJT To Cover Hospital Coverage: Ryan-An AODS bumping an OJT early to go to hospital to cover a crisis patient is not right. Becky-I will get that back to Brian. Alex-Who’s call should it be to be taken off OJT earlier? Scott-I would say that person supervisor. We would go to our leads and ask their input as well. Scott-Usually a communication from direct supervisor. We try not to do that in the moment.
  5. 5.      Retention Ideas: Ryan-OT bonus for FSS is a great idea. Alli-It depends on budget and require an MOU. We requested more classifications at negotiations. Consider that as we look at the language. Ryan-Other classifications get a bonus on OT and days off. Steve-We talked about recruitment ideas and you were going to bring that back. Any additional ideas for these? Alli-They expanded incentives that were added to positions difficult to fill including SCs. It is now at the DCT level to offer that out. Staff do need to stay in the position for 6 months. For recruitment, it helps to give a little boost has been helpful for recruitment. They offered the incentive in the Moose Lake area which helped. Alex-Can we pull the numbers for the cost in offering those bonuses? Alli-Yes, we can do that.
  6. 6.      Booster Shot Vaccine Clinic: Becky-That hasn’t been discussed yet. We are working on the boosters for patients right now. Scott-None are planned for us at this time. There are so many places outside of here that offer it. Its very labor intensive. Our insurance covers it. Ryan-We are coved to get vaccinated; does it cover booster shots? Alli-I will get clarity on the booster and the side effects. From the normal vaccine and you have side effects, you have 8 hours. I am not sure about the booster. Steve-How long the shot works, if you haven’t gotten the booster, they wear off. The relapse for vaccination has worn off. We may need to have those conversations at the command post. Alli-DCT will have to look at the results form CDS and MDH to determine what fully vaccinated means. We want to make sure we are aligned with the guidance. Scott-This issue has not been discussed yet. The mandates have been the topic lately. Kurt-This facility is encouraging staff to get vaccinated. Not pushing the mandate, correct? Scott-We are encouraging to get vaccinated. I also understand people have personal reasons to not get vaccinated. I don’t discount that. Kurt-There are people who think the facility is encouraging it. Scott-Anytime there is a mandate, my job gets harder along with staff. There is a lot of opinion out there. I don’t want anyone getting sick. Kurt-The union encourages it as well but we don’t support mandates.
  7. 7.      AODS Asking Staff Why They Are Leaving Sick: Ryan-This happened recently. They shouldn’t ask why. Becky-They indicated they were leaving FMLA? Ryan-They told me they were asked if it’s because they had to cover another unit. Scott-Some staff seem to leave in middle of shift when they are on the least senior list. That person gets an email and then call od to say they are leaving. The od will ask if sick and why. If the staff calls and says I’m leaving FML, you don’t ask. The truth is somewhere in the middle of that. Scott-I was told the staff called and just said they are leaving and the OD asked why. Becky-We need a platform to problem solve some patterns we see. We see some patterns when unexpected things happen to certain staff. We can work through the patterns and have conversations with the supervisors.


Add Ons:

  1. 1.      Referral Bonuses: Ryan-Staff was told the referral wasn’t filled out correctly during the hire. It was for the staff kids so its not much of leap. Heather-Send me who it is and I can look into it. Becky-There is a lot of history with this one. Ryan-Send it to me and Alli
  2. Aspen/Birch/Cedar: Becky-Start moving furniture into north campus in next couple of weeks. Then we will start moving patients. Looking at 2nd week of December. Kurt-Staff that bid on those spots were absorbed to other units. What happens to those spots? Becky-They will be vacant positions and filled through the process and overtime. Marvin-Is there a reason we are shooting for that timeframe and not beginning of the year? The holiday season is coming up. Alex-Its hectic for the patients as well. Marvin-we have pushed a person-centered approach. Staff are looking at it and being forced into the situation and not spending time with family because of overtime. Becky-Overtime numbers have taken a steep decrease after summer. That is when the environment is ready. I can’t see us doing a bunch of transfers during that time but let me talk to leadership about that. Marvin-There has got to be a plan. Becky-North Campus: Continue to monitor completion of the updates in the building. Our current planned move in date will be the week of 11/29/21 or the week of 12/6/21 pending other delays. We are also working with Licensing on a variance to the Variance of Rule 36 that we operate under to better support operations on North Campus. Becky-Aspen/Birch/Cedar: Required fire-rated doors arrived the week of 11/8, with installation and all other work planned for the week of 11/15/21.  Very tentative date that we would occupy this space would be middle of December.   


  1. 3.      Becky: Communication regarding break weeks. The only change is terminology. It implies that we don’t offer services to our patients. We are doing many things. We will shift from break week to engagement week. This says we are engaging patients in activities that aren’t clinical but more rehabilitative. There will be an increase in requested support by clinical staff. They will be asked to participate or coordinate in two activities during that time. Kurt-Has there been any talk about inversing professional staff? Scott-If I need someone on night shift, how do I inverse a clinical staff? Most inversing happens on weekends. To inverse when we need them, it wouldn’t work. That is as much as I have thought about it. Kurt-Yeah, I think I asked Carol about it last month. Steve-MAPE has a contract to so we would need to look at that as well.


Meeting Adjourned at 205PM