March 2021 FMHP Meeting Minutes

AFSCME Labor Management MSH

March 18, 2021 1230PM

Administration Building


Attendance: Adam Castle, Emilio Florez, Ryan Cates, Steve Wilking, Alex Flores, Denise Considine, Scott Melby, Roxanne Portner, Carol Olsen, Michelle Chalin, Marvin Sullivan, Alli Kuhlman, Annie Jakacki, Becky Robinson, Denise Considine, Kristen Hiner

Reflection/Celebration: Roxanne-Covid clinics are complete. Around 50 percent for staff. Larger places are seeing around 60 percent. Becky-Dr. Dunwitty has offered (DISC) program which is an open forum for folks encountering increase stressor in the community. Marginalization and racism are some topics that are included. We are offering opportunities for people to get involved. Platform to share thoughts and feeling across campus. This is an opportunity for everyone to share. Cates-The Dr has also reached out to labor. Kurt-A lot of us are happy we get to be screened other than in the Pederson building.

Standing Agenda Items:

  1. Osha Information: Handouts from Alli.
  2. 2.      Overtime Information: Handouts from Alli.
  3. 3.      Budgeted Position Review: Carol-Post all DCT positions. Had many at NEO. Interviewed yesterday. We are close to filling all positions at this time, according to Jodi. We have had success lately with hires. The challenge is CNAs. CNAs from training last year completed their training. We intend to do that again for nursing home. Chalin-they worked at the nursing home on a unit and went to class. They weren’t doing things independently at the time. We hired two last year and are still with us. We worked with their class schedules, which complimented the work. Emilio-Our members can get the free schooling benefit, would you work with them for CNAs? Carol-We would consider it, but we need staff. Annie-CNA is not eligible for the benefit because it is out of Ohio and is hands on. You can do the online portion only. They could do LPN generals through the free college.

Old Business


  1. 1.      OT Tank/Assigning Overtime: Carol-Ted described it when employees home unit is available, they will put them there but if it’s too early to be available, they say what is available. Subsequent shift overtime tank is after. Shifts are given assuming 8 hours. Kurt-If positions are open and not filled, if there are opening in tank, they are left for people in building to choose first. It varies on who it is. Problems arise when they are told where they are going and then a sick call comes in and they are moved. We talked about continuity of care. No one expects someone on home unit to be moved for an intermittent to work overtime. Carol- I can ask Ted to talk to one of you about it more also.
  2. 2.      Vacation Rescinding: Carol- I checked with Jodi on this. Cates-staff were doing this systematically. Carol-That was one individual. At this point schedulers have stopped telling staff he would be scheduled a different shift. He gets it vacation because its available. Cates-Contract language asking for 5 days or more they have to rescind so far out. He was doing it inside a posting. Should have been in advance. They have stopped him from doing that now. Its specific to 40 hours or more. Alli- I did talk to Jodi about that as well.


  1. 1.      COVID Issues: Alex-Are we still allowing dependent leave? Alli-Direction from DCT is that its only available if you are symptomatic and test positive. Care is not currently covered under policy. If staff need to use sick time, we can work with you. This is in accordance with DCT policy. Alex-unfortunate it doesn’t accommodate single parents. Steve-Please send me those leave options.
  2. 2.      Hazard Pay: Cates-Any information on this? Alli-This is not something we can make a decision on locally. We haven’t heard anything more at this time.
  3. 3.      Lead List: Cates-where are we? Marvin-Mondays we can attend. Cates-it hasn’t been open for 18 months. Can we look at opening it up with the prior method? Becky-we will look into it. Alli-I can do some follow up on that so we can be on the same page. I will talk to Denise and MSOP. Becky-Feedback for Mondays as well.
  4. 4.      Grove A Shifts 8 Hours: Cates-transitions looking at 8 hours. They will be in with other units. Some working 8.5 and others 8. Can we be consistent with 8? Carol-No. HSSS and LPNs in grove A, the leadership likes that 8.5 shift. We will not change at this time. Becky-asking for all disciplines for straight shifts? Cates-yes. Emilio-how about cutting our shifts to 8s. In CRP it was cut from 8.5 to 8s. It was a financial decision. Carol-if I did say that, I don’t know how that would be true. Leadership wanted 8.5 hours. FSS can pick up overtime across areas. We made that concession to go to 8s. we will maintain. Marvin-LPNs could pick up overtime working 8.5 hour shifts. Carol-yep. Marvin-or vice versa. Seems weird to have one grove opposite of others with a small pool. This is from them. We can’t retain LPNs and here is an example why.
  5. 5.      LPNs Working Across Groves/Cross Training: Cates-we asked and were told after RNs. LPNs more than qualify. Roxanne-we are working on that as far as competencies. Would be mandatory. There is specific overtime language and making sure nothing contractual. Once we get that, we will touch base. Jodi would have to get it set up in atlas as well.
  6. 6.      Ergonomic Office Furniture: Carol-Paul Ploog was going through this. Establishing inventory and then maintain in the right place. That will roll out soon. Any chairs that are broken will be monitored as well. Kim is working with Paul so there is a way to check on maintenance and a way to maintain inventory. Becky-She is also checking on a way to monitor warranties.

New Business


  1. 1.      Charter: Carol-moving away from an established charter and go back to language for labor/management meetings. Contract language talks about it so we will just stay with contract language. It was established after BMS. Then we put together charters. Contract language is all we need.
  2. 2.      Agenda Item Requests: Carol-We would like them sooner and with more detail please. Cates-we will try to do that. Sometimes we do have add ons.


  1. 1.      OT Calling for FNH: Cates-Sometimes they call out or offer without calling, just looking for consistency. Chalin-we had an issue recently where we didn’t have time to call out. Carol-Nursing home overtime is very low.
  2. 2.      Staffing on FHN NOCS/Reduced HSSSs?: Chalin-No reduction, we actually increased. Have 2 dead bid and added another. We increased minimums due to the census. 1 to 1 we studied how often he was up. It was minimal on nights, so we stuck to the minimum and added one if he was up. Marvin-what is that staff doing that is assigned when he isn’t up? Chalin-on the unit. Marvin-if he falls and three is an investigation….Chalin-a one to one only when he is out of his room. He has an alarm on his bed so we know as soon as he is up. It alarms us on our pagers for his room so we can assist him. He wasn’t doing that overnight. Marvin-that will fall on staff if that happens. Carol-census was low so we could absorb that one to one in staffing compliment. Marvin-we are still assigned to the one to one. I sat an investigation on this. Carol-we are making that decision, not that staff. This is the difference. Marvin-that’s how the investigation was the same and they were responsible. Carol-It’s all in how the order is written. Marvin-how does the policy address it? Carol-we will take a look at it. Marvin-If I’m assigned to the duties, I’m responsible. Kurt-maybe if you guys could put in a clause. That can clarify when you are assisting another patient and cannot leave, someone else has to cover behind you. Chalin-I’m not sure if the order is for overnights. I will have to look at the order. Becky-investigation was licensing or performance? Kurt-Licensing for VA.
  3. 3.      Radios: Cates-The volume levels and man downs are an issue. Master control couldn’t pick it up. Carol-Dan said nothing has changed as far as volume. Man-down button, there is another side to that story. We did try that radio again and it worked. I checked in with staff. The lesson is to continue practice and running drills. Some units have a lot of ICS and others don’t have the opportunity. Marvin-If I push the man down and hit and hold, it stops the open mic. I am concerned because it could happen accidentally. I ask we reprogram that function. Carol-I am glad you guys will test that. Emilio-we will do some testing. We don’t know if it stops the alarm in control. Steve-there is no doubt that seasoned staff were working and were very concerned with it.
  4. 4.      Retired Intermittent Staff: Cates-Are we allowing them to be intermittents? Carol-At this time, we haven’t been filling more. They don’t pick up shifts we need them to pick up. Only want preferred shifts. Cates-isn’t anything better than nothing? Carol-That was Jodi’s response. Cates-they are asking if we can do it. Carol-the headache is they don’t pick up hours but we need to maintain the training. They end up being resistant to it and they put in 40 hours for training, then aren’t available. Becky-do we require so many hours to maintain but don’t wanna go that route. Carol-hasn’t worked in our favor. We do have some that we don’t let go. I can take it back to leadership. Cates-can I have staff come to you that are interested? We like retired intermittents as long as they don’t come in at 80 hours.
  5. 5.      Increase In Overtime: Carol-Data says sick calls. 85 percent sick calls. I asked Jodi. Cates- 6k is sick calls? Carol-80 percent is sick calls. 8 percent vacancy. 85 percent sick calls. Appointments and transport is 2 percent. Classroom training is 3 percent. 1 to 1 is 2 percent. When we put out a schedule and fill the known in advance because of holes or injuries? Jodi says when they post, most are filled because of vacancies or out for injury. The bulk is sick time. Graph shows spike in February because of vaccines and snow emergencies. Alex-If people call in sick due to weather, it is considered sick, as well as FMLA. Alex-more FMLA approved could contribute. Marvin-you can’t, its protected. Carol-It isn’t our decision. Kurt-what is a normal percent of sick calls for overtime? Carol-not off the top of my head. Roxanne-usually the biggest piece of the pie. Marvin-we tripled since February of 18. Cates-so you are saying it should go down? But wait until summer months. Kurt-Opening up new units could contribute as well. There were more spots supposedly budgeted to cover those units, and not take from one area to cover. Carol-but if we are able to cover the units with our staff, that doesn’t account for that. If we used industry standard, we would be hurting. This coming budget year, we are building 30 percent for vacation, sick. Roxanne-I am interested in breaking up subsequent and known in advance to see the information on that.
  6. 6.      UP Covering North Campus/Process for Informing Staff and Mileage: Cates-Staff working utility come in and have to drive. Told because they are on staffing, they can’t be paid mileage. They are told to call ahead of time but when they do, they should be called because it is not their regular place to work. Carol-I agree. I can let the supervisor know. Ted said they do try to call them but sometimes they don’t. It’s 3.5 miles, round up to 4.
  7. 7.      LPNs Being Inversed for RNs/RNs allowed To Change Shifts: Cates-RNs have come in for an early shift when they forgot the shift was a late. They are allowed to stay. This affects LPNs inverses. How is that fair. Roxanne-send me specifics and I will look into it. Cates-This is the 2nd time it has happened now. An LPN calls in, they inverse LPN. If RN calls in sick, RN should be inversed. This didn’t happen here. Roxanne-was there already a need? Cates-I am not sure. Steve-You are circumventing the language. You are responsible for coming in for your shift, period.
  8. 8.      Vacation Slots-How Many FSS/FSSL on Residential Days for 21 Slots?: Cates-We have transport added and we are absorbing 16 NOCS into days. Vacation is the same. Carol-There are 241 FSS, FSSL. Our intention is to not go above 21 slots. Cates-going above 1 to 10 ratio. You have high level of overtime that puts pressure on this. Will staff be able to use the vacation they accrue? Carol-we should take a look at vacation accruals and see if 21 slots manages that. Alli-I will run the report on that. Annie-Throughout covid a lot of people haven’t been able to take vacation due to staff shortages. There were some last year close to maxing out and those were adjusted. Carol-we can look into that. Denise-We did an extension for people, I don’t know if any was lost. I think we extended it again as well. No lost time. Kurt-wouldn’t it make sense to add a couple of spots? If there are more days available to plan ahead instead of inversing. Th original was 22 and now you are adding more people to it. You all know what is going to happen. At least you can plan for it. Cates-Weekends and summer is all being used. There are a couple of spots during the week. Carol-It’s actually over-used due to moving units, etc. Steve-85 percent sick use. Overtime is going to be brutal this summer. Carol-A high vacancy rate doesn’t help either. Kurt-Eventually people are going to leave. Staff should feel valued. Becky-we could add any number in there. It might give optics for morale but people will still call in sick. Kurt-But there is a huge difference with inversing and taking OT in advance. Marvin-During pandemic, there weren’t a lot of inverses, but now there is a ton. Cates-People take it because there is some available and its viewed as a shortage. Then they rescind. Annie-look at all vacation taken up in summer. See how many staff are taking up that vacation. If it’s only 20 percent of staff. The other 80 percent will be struggling. Carol-We have to honor vacation contractually. Annie-I’m just saying to look into it to see where it’s going.
  9. 9.      Hospital Coverage and 1 Staff Concerns: Cates-Patient is said to be bedridden but go into bathroom. Said to be comatose but then pull out their lines. A staff was said to be sleeping but was found to be untrue. The fact the allegation was made. Our staff need the protection of another staff. Carol-I believe there is a subset of patients who only need one staff. I understand the potential and we have to investigate. In this case, we investigated and found no wrong-doing. We just went through this and made changes. Cates-I am saying if a patient isn’t ready for one staff, why is that happening. Not transition patients. Carol-It’s a personal decision. For inside perimeter, I thought it was based on if there are more than one patient also. Nursing home, I would be hard pressed to say we need two. If it comes up, call and say there is someone we don’t feel comfortable with one. Becky-Especially if it’s a patient from a secure unit. That population is challenging. You expect someone further along in their treatment for one staff. Cates-And then a staff wants to take a break and hospital staff doesn’t want to break them because what the patient is doing.
  10. 10.  Linden/Maple Charting Rooms: Carol-the plan is to move the people in split rock to Itasca. There is plans for them to get the rooms back.
  11. 11.  Grove Reorganization: Becky-We will have forum on Tuesday at 6 and 2. There will be a vital forum. There are elements left open for input. Environmental moves, nursing, etc. Early on as we get to May 12th date. That might be trigger point. Just want to make sure that makes sense to others. Carol-we are sitting at 19 or 20 at north campus. Our goal is to have everyone discharged form there by end of April so we can get in there for physical plant changes. End of may move transition out there. Becky-Bartlett is talking about moving patients right now as well Bartlett 2 south to forest view north. This will hopefully reduce transports up there. Becky- we could do another day for the forum. Carol-maybe even a week later so there can be time to come up with questions.

Add Ons:

  1. 1.      Patients being dropped off at Sheppard Drive access: Steve-If they are coming back in from the community, why aren’t they going through screening like we are? Becky-I will check the demobilization process. Steve-They are picked up by transit, taking them to community and dropped off. There is no screening for them. Marvin-It’s not just for them either. Carol- we can take that back to demobilization team.


Meeting Adjourned at 215pm