June 2019 MSH Meet and Confer

AFSCME Labor Management MSH

June 20 2019 1230PM

Administration Building


Attendance: Adam Castle, Marvin Sullivan, Crystal Kreklow, Emilio Florez, Matt Stenger, Steve Wilking, Ryan Cates, Lisa Vanderveen, Alli Kuhlman, Scott Melby, Roxanne Portner, Carol Olsen


Reflection/Celebration: Carol-We are coming to a close with the licensing review and it has gone very well so far.

Standing Agenda Items:

  1. Osha Information-Handouts from Alli.
  2. 2.      Overtime Information-Handouts from Alli.

Old Business:


  1. 1.      Phones for hospital coverage: Marvin-I think there is an internal lock but the phones should be Wi-Fi capable. Carol-It might be something with the type of phones we get from the state. Share the information with Marlene.



  1. 1.      LPN and RN Mutuals: Cates-This can be done outside of this meeting. We would like to have a meeting with everyone including LPNs and RNs. Roxanne-yes, we can look as long as we have our compliment and doesn’t cause overtime and inversing. Looks like we can move forward with how we used to do this. Crystal-Send an email to everyone. Carol-We don’t need MMB. Revert back to how it used to be done. Roxanne-It can’t be done in Atlas. We need to have a process to evaluate. It will go through the scheduling office. Crystal-When will you communicate this to everyone? Roxanne-Within the next week.
  2. 2.      Miscellaneous Grievance Issues: Cates-Last 6 months to a year all grievances have been denied. No way that management is right all of the time. Process supposed to be fair. Isn’t a process any more. Not looked at fairly. Roxanne-I just met with Marvin on an issue and it didn’t need to go to a grievance. Carol-I want to look at the data to see what it shows. Stenger-we also have the same issue with different outcomes. Crystal-so a data request for last year with how many and what the outcomes were? Alli-yeah. Cates-do the last 12 months.

New Business:


  1. 1.      Staff Forums June 25 and June 26: Carol-agenda will be rollout of new organizational structure and plan. But we will put out the flyer online with the update. 1st and 2nd in Bartlett. Others in summit center.



  1. 1.      Cable in MSH: Cates-main concern is no library and now taking cable away. Leaves boredom and makes dangerous. Melby-I am aware but it’s unavoidable. MSOP isn’t able to maintain the vendor and we are tied with that. We have a vendor in mind but it won’t be for a while. In the meantime, we will do an antenna. It will cover the campus at a fraction of cost. Explore with program leadership to use the money for DVDs for checkout. We spend 2000 month on cable. MSOP is $5000. Lot of money and service is of poor quality. Unavoidable and we are trying to provide entertainment. Cates-work in all units and rooms? Melby-yes, will have boosters to run through all campus. Roxanne-staff reported they use it and receive 50 channels. Stenger-they are low quality channels. Melby-possible we may be able to broadcast over the channels. I don’t want to commit. They tested it a year ago so when we know the channels, we can get a list out. Emilio-before the cable or after? Melby-we want to get it up a d running before the cable runs out on June 30th. Antenna by the 26th hopefully ahead of time. Carol-anytime staff has ideas for entertainment let us know. Stenger-for months we have been asking to let clients co mingle and it doesn’t happen. Melby-bring specific ideas for the units. Marvin-its concerning because there is a lot of anger in transition where clients are stable. Do we have a plan for it? Melby-individual units need to prepare and have ideas how to handle this. Crystal-have you planned for an entire unit that goes off? Melby-we have emergency processes now. May be extreme for a riot due to cable. When smoking was done away with, nothing happened. I don’t want to minimize it but…crystal-I just wants to be prepared. We are telling you they are already acting out and it hasn’t happened yet. There will be an uptick. Melby-I hadn’t heard people were concerned. We can do extra drills. The staff hearing this from patients are the most prepared to respond. I will work with other supervisors to see if they are hearing the heightened level from patients and staff.
  2. 2.      Issues with the decision to take away chairs on Hickory: Stenger-I heard Jaime came out on unit. Pointed at office and said “everyone but two out in morning meeting now.” Then the times they set up to be on unit does not match up with anything we have going on. No input was taken from us. Supervisor boyfriend came out and removed chairs from the unit. Looks punitive and doesn’t do anything but piss of staff and clients. When you have 4 staff sitting out there, they feel you are watching them even closer and cause paranoia. They stated they feel like an animal in a cage. Rolled out poorly. Cates-just said posts should be on units. Nothing about the status of the unit. Simply hand fisted direction. Doesn’t take in any complexities. Stenger-they all kept blaming carol. Then Jenny Carlstrom came out and admitted it was her. Staff are more upset because they are being lied to. Lisa-I did follow up. Concern raised about hickory. You know the acuity varies. Right now, it is acute. Patients saying there are fearful and vulnerable. I asked jenny to do follow up and staff visible on unit. My understanding it was a thoughtful discussion and a lot of input. Posts having at least 3 on unit engaging with patients. Flexibility to that. If other things going on or other things acute. Stenger-there is a list and if you aren’t out there, it will be dealt with. Lisa-that is not what I was told. Stenger-you were told by martins and jenny. Not what the staff are feeling. Melby-status now? Sign up sheet there? Stenger-staff decided to stop doing it. We are out when we can but are still out there. Cates-decisions being made by RNAs and directors with other groves. People that don’t work the unit are making decisions that are uninformed. Lisa-I think they are informed. Stenger-Jenny Carlstrom came out about a client and said he was an honorary eagle. He stopped going to groups because he stopped going to groups. Jenny came back and said she screwed up about 5 days later. Lisa-I appreciate your perspective. It’s a focus to have staff engaged but we want everyone involved together. What is best for patients. Stenger-way it was done was adversarial. Marvin-bringing in new sups that are from the groves. Day to day things change. Are we going to see these decisions? Lisa-the way it was relayed to me is that it was a team perspective to be out o n the unit. We want a team decision. Stenger-I guarantee that didn’t happen.
  3. 3.      Impressions given to patients during grievance discussions: Cates-when patient in meeting about grievance being told “we will make sure staff doesn’t do that” what they are being told isn’t how it’s supposed to work. Management be aware that what they tell the patients has repercussions for staff on the units. Stenger-carol you told client that staff will take the patient out to activities more. Carol-when they come to me, I talk to director about the history and what is doable and I rely on that. I also will listen to patients if they say disrespectful. Our policies require respect and I will communicate that to the supervisor. I also understand that patients can be untruthful. I apologize if I did that. Cates-this was a rumor but it was a JP situation so it is very serious. Carol-I don’t recall saying it to him but not saying he can’t twist words. They also have a right and I have to listen to the concerns. Melby-I did a lot of grievances and sometimes they wouldn’t be truthful about me so I had another staff. Let us know if this is happening. We are trying to find middle ground of patient rights and the truth. We don’t want to create problems but to resolve. Patients need to feel they are heard. Crystal-this client filed grievance about the way he was handled in a situation…what was he told? Carol-I didn’t meet with him. 1st level with unit director then 2nd clinical. Within 10 days. If it isn’t handled it comes to me. Crystal-we were told he met with him and was told staff shouldn’t handle you like that. Who met with him then? Carol-it wasn’t me but may have been Dr. Harachan. Melby-sometimes patients mischaracterize what they heard.
  4. 4.      Elm Unit Plan: Carol-construction we have to vacate the unit when they work on hallway. Timing is up in the air. Hoping forest will move to prairie view for remodel to move the ones we feel safe. Vacate aspen and elm for work to start on that hallway which will shorten timeline of construction which will cost a lot of money. Cates-patients and staff to different areas. Carol-picking as teams. Hickory team to forest south. Aspen to redwood. Redwood to hickory. But patients will be decided clinically. 10 MIND need to stay in perimeter. Treatment team will decide the right place. Carol-staff will be absorbed into their grove. Stenger-why was hickory chosen to go out of perimeter. Carol-move patients that the clinical will move. We can’t move MIND out of perimeter by law. We are looking at September at earliest. Doesn’t make sense to look at the patients due to turnover. It will be who we feel safe in a locked building. Stenger-we were told north campus won’t have murderer and sex offenders. Carol-courts are committing them and the clinical picture who is safe in those environments. Didn’t appear to be a clinical risk. Stenger-staff are told one thing and you do something else. Vander-no one ever said absolutely won’t be. It’s been two years. We talked about skill and what is manageable out there. Carol-I hope people understand it is a constant evolution. Try to not have that in my language but I try not to say it. We have 2 to 3 other moves until completion. This is just for now. We are in the middle of a major construction project. Nothing is forever. Vander-we look at who is appropriate for that care. If on 2 or 3. We have population at Anoka too. We can’t look yet at the population. Stenger-hickory is higher for ICS and being moved to an unsecure location. Not always MIND. Steve-open fluidity through crisis management? Vander-absolutely. Steve-a week ago had 3 patient assault. If that happens in forest view south. Do we have rooms and steps in place? Carol-for sure with the seclusion rooms and we will run a lot of drills until staff feel confident. Have been able to manage that. Steve-east a team response? Carol-Tom Roessler is the guy for that. He can work with the safety team and determine that. We are all trained the same. ICS is a system to call upon help you need. I trust tom and the team to manage that. Melby-safety team met and talked about the response. Right now, is east but when people move, we are going to look it over again so people know what to do. Similar to when will and Tamarak opened. Stenger-about winter time during slippery roads etc. Melby-summer or winter we have to responds quickly and safely.
  5. 5.      Windows on Willow and Plastic Chairs: Cates-incident with a patient cracking window with plastic chair. Melby-the windows are not supposed to break. We had chairs that were filled with sand. I don’t know why that was there. We didn’t introduce the chair into the unit. Staff did. It did not fall out or shatter. It functioned how we need it to. I don’t know if it was replaced. I will double check. It is a specific type of glass.
  6. 6.      FTS patients at dental appointments without staff: Cates-could include Bartlett as well. Were sat by utility but recently patient allowed to walk in under passes with no security staff. Dentist, OASI and sometimes assistant. Worried about sharps in the area and should be security staff. Carol-coming from our dental staff and did they escalate it? Cates-Yes, it is from them. I don’t know if it was escalated. Transitions staff said they never sit dental. Always sat them before. Without staff in there, a lot can happen with the sharps. Melby-I looked at this a month ago. Recent? Cates- I was just told 3 weeks ago. Melby-I thought it got fixed but I can ask. Steve-did it get fixed? Melby-That patients were to be escorted. Steve-I have not seen directive. We don’t do escorts. They are often returned with no escort and certain transition staff don’t escort them in. Melby-we have got to to do some discovery. Cates-are they having utility staff sit visits? Lisa-email sent in November to allow patient to be unescorted based on liberty level but would be notified if there was 1 staff. Marvin-we are hearing utility isn’t doing it anymore. Lisa-I will look into it
  7. 7.      Addendum to position description: Carol-this came form DHS. Cates-staff can’t find it. Roxanne-it’s in pathlore. Directions are confusing. Cates-two separate ones? Carol-let me get some more answers on that. Melby-talk to the supervisors if they are having problems with it. Melby-comply with all policies is the PD one. Crystal-AFSCME has been instructed not to sign it because it is impossible to be asked to follow all policies. So, I have escalated it to the DCT level. We are reading it but we are not clicking yes. Its unrealistic. There is no way any staff can follow l100 percent. It’s too vague. Over 9000 DHS policies and to add this to PD is not right. Carol-starting performance reviews and management has been asked to have a separate sheet for this for staff to find. Roxanne-this is in the training pathlore. Crystal-as management you should be concerned as well
  8. 8.      What makes an injury OSHA recordable: Carol- I asked for the exact language because that is what we follow. Melby-handed it to cates
  9. 9.      Overtime placement, OT tank and other problems with advance OT system: Cates-complaints that senior staff coming in put on aspen. Less senior staff being placed on more desirable units. Why sign up if we don’t know where we are going. Melby-how common? Cates-happens a lot. Staff on the hill. Melby-who are other staff. Cates-less senior staff or those that doesn’t work there normally. Steve-I have made this a point for interest-based problem solving. Things we can work on to alleviate the problems. Topic for the future.



Add Ons:

  1. 1.      Aspen-plans to do acuity change? Cates-changes with the units with LPNs and RNs? Carol-is staff wanting it? Cates-no, just concerns with how they are used. Carol-ok, so they would like to stay working on that unit? Cates-yes. Carol-ok. We don’t have plans of doing anything different.


Adjourned at 130pm