July 2018 MSOP Meet and Confer

AFSCME Labor Management MSOP

July 12, 2018

1st Floor Administration


Attendance: Adam Castle, Matt Stenger, Crystal Kreklow, Ryan Cates, Eric Hesse, Mike Homer, Troy Sherwood, Jamie Sheppard, Elizabeth Trandum, Jamie Sheppard, Scott Halverson, Michelle Sexe, Paul Rodriguez, Michelle Breamer, Bonnie Wold, JR Haller, Melissa Gryschek, Nicole Boder, Alex Rodriguez



  1. 1.      Follow Up Items
    1. OT/Inverse Numbers: JR-For pay period beginning 6/27, 1st watch had 16 inversed for 57 hrs, 2nd watch had 4 for 16.25 and 3rd had 10 for 55.25. 6/17 had 19 for 96.75 for 1st, 21 for 67 for 2nd and 5 for 17 for 3rd. 5/30 had 17 for 80.25 for 1st, 14 for 40.5 for 2nd, and 8 for 32 for 3rd. 5/16 had 14 for 58.75 for 1st, 20 for 61 for 2nd, and 8 for 49 for 3rd.
    2. B.      Atlas App & Vacation/OT: JR-consultant is working on pursuing the app and no update at this time. Cates-at forensics we can see everyone denied for the day but not the date and time. Liz-still in implementation phase so its easier to make changes but we can take that back. Stenger-said they would fix windows users before the windows 7.
    3. C.      Approved Tardies-Vacation: Liz-Management recognizes the union’s request to allow the use of accruals for other than weather related tardies. Management is reviewing on a case by case basis and has allowed since last time we discussed.
    4. Coachings: Hesse- asking that if coachings are placed in the file, that management inform the staff Troy-we can review that. Discussions can happen with staff at different times. May be positive as well. Hesse-yeah but you are putting stuff in their file, they should know. Troy-yeah we agree and will talk to the supervisors if it leads to further discipline. Hesse-can we come up with an appeal process? Can they appeal Liz-The supervisors file is just that, the supervisory file. They maintain their own documentation of their employee’s performance management. I have directed staff who have questions about why a coaching isn’t removed to work with their supervisor and have experienced that they do talk about it. Coachings are not formal discipline, considered informal discipline. Melissa-- to clarify there is no formal versus informal discipline, coachings are not discipline, its informal coaching leading up to formal discipline possibly. Whether or not supervisors telling staff about the coaching, I don’t disagree with that philosophically. Obviously we are talking to supervisors to do this but on the flip side, employees should assume that conversations with supervisors good or bad are being documented. Hesse - We are getting complaints about not being told. Melissa-However, there are words that you should know, if it is a coaching, it is a conversation about corrective behavior. We don’t have to say coaching or that it is being placed in the file. We have to meet just cause standards to show we attempted to help. We do not have an interest in an interest in an  appeal process, we have gone further than contract by removing some coachings. And when they have asked for it to be removed, we have worked to facilitate discussions with supervisors. That is an appeal process. It’s owned by the supervisor. Hesse-a supervisor isn’t infallible, they could put stuff that didn’t happen. There have been cases and labor did have proposal and were told that it shouldn’t be in there for more than a year. Someone had coaching that lead to written reprimand. After a year it can be removed. They dropped reprimand but not the coaching that could lead to another discipline. Melissa-at face value I would agree with you. I don’t know the other side of that. People correct behavior. These things get stuck in a file for five years and we agreed that consideration for things that are no longer an issue is appropriate. I want to understand that situation though.
    5. 3.      Lawn and Mowing Crew: Hesse- Spoke to Tim about this already but…Troy-current staffing levels no additional resources coming. Maintenance area has been 3 to 4 years no additional staff. As a team, we worked with OD group and goal was to move to that area and have counselor cover but not accrue overtime to cover that. That is the direction we needed to go. I can’t answer if there was inversing because of that or other things. I will have to look. Hesse-our stance is vocational should be covering. Rumor was vocational said they don’t have a budget so lets put it on the counselors. Troy-everyone has the resources they need to work with. Its not that. Hesse-it will affect staff morale. Just keep getting dumped on and we don’t have funding as well. Bonne-its everywhere. Troy-we are open to suggestions.
    6. 4.      Probation-Specialty Training-Hesse-when people get hired for control or a team they won’t get put in there until a certain amount of time. 3 months from Tim so we can see how staff will be. Hearing 6 months. What is time frame? Liz-Tim said management goal is to be completely trained in job area before their 6 months. Bonnie-I haven’t had that conversation with Tim. Troy-we can look at that and find out.
    7. 5.      CPS Cameras: Hesse-heard cameras in staff area directly in desk area. Michelle-we haven’t added any cameras but have put requests to add cameras in yard and other places. We haven’t added any cameras. Talk to me. Hesse-just concerned if it is pointed in staff only areas. Its terms and conditions of employment. Michelle-we did look at our offices being wide open. It wouldn’t be in staff only area. We would like more coverage if someone was assaulted. It wouldn’t just be staff station. Rodriquez-points out towards the door. I don’t know what would be the best coverage. If something would happen we have no evidence. Michelle-we looked at covering blind spots not what staff are doing. Paul-I have heard staff voice the desire to have more cameras for better coverage.
    8. 6.      Pulling bid staff so OT staff cover-Hesse-complaints that OT staff are being put on unit and bid staff being pulled to cover. Bonnie-that will happen if someone isn’t cross trained. Hesse-its happening on the units. OT staff is basically kicking out bid staff. Troy-is it happening and then sent to cover control center or something else? Homer-no, its just random. Troy-we can look into that that should be easy to fix. Michelle-I have had staff come to me after for outings as well. As it happens let their supervisor or myself know and we can get an answer.
    9. 7.      SNV not handed out-Hesse-lots of extra staff around and we know its not contractual but staff are wondering why its not being handed out when we have 6 to 7 extras even with 2 ods in the office. Bonnie-I think they would let them out. It’s managing what’s in facility. Troy-they take temp of facility and don’t have a number. We can follow up.
    10. 8.      SNV granting procedure: Hesse-same people are getting it and staff thinking its not truly random. Maybe have a lead in there to view polling of the numbers. Go back to that to make it transparent? Troy-it had happened? Hesse-people complaining about the process and same people getting it. Mentioned having a lead down there for transparency. JR-it does get audited to make sure everyone is doing the same thing. Hesse-it could be random and staff see the same people every time. JR-done through a number generator online. At the time we have SNV available, numbers are pulled from random.com.
    11. 9.      Hiring Intermittents: Hesse-seeing the past 2 months and wondering why we are not hiring full time. Bonnie-we fill when they are vacant. We had 6 intermittent spots and 3 were filled. Hesse-solely 2nd watch? Bonnie-Rumor. JR-if we have one available and funded. Bonnie-we have hired folks from here. The remaining 3 spots are not funded. They are vacant.
    12. 10.  South House Inversing: Hesse-concerns about size of the pool due to instances of improper inversing. I heard people getting more than 24 in 48 and weekends. No grievances on it. Being short staffed isn’t an emergency. What are we doing to not improperly inversing? Upping the size. Scott-own work unit. Staff on site get inverse. I haven’t heard of 2 in a row. Hesse-someone had to wait around for someone to show up. Michelle-that was for that snow storm and the person relieving him got stuck in the snow. Scott-if first watch staff can’t make it, there would be conversation with the facility. Hesse-if it’s on their weekend, you have to wait and then it’s improperly. Bonnie-if they are calling in, we would have some notice then. Hesse-I’m just bringing this up, I foresaw this happening. Crystal-I would like this to be corrected here instead of waiting. Hesse-one was Brian Woller and have to check for other names. Liz-any input I can bring it to review. Mellissa-I think the information around it will help for us to have the discussion. Scott-and they weren’t ok with that? Hesse-he said he was inversed. Scott-I will follow up with Brian. Hesse-easy solution will be to up the staffing pool especially with summer and vacations. We have 9 additional other than the 6 on site who staff. Scott-I will bring that up at the next meeting. Stenger-did we try to stagger the people with their days off? JR-we took anyone who was willing to cross train. Crystal-I heard you picked who was going to be cross trained. JR-that was originally but then had to take anyone willing. Hesse-is it 3 per watch? At least double it just to have an increased pool to draw from.
    13. 11.  Pexton Restructuring: Troy-client related in programming. Clients themselves are where they need to be but looked more like group times being shortened. Operations we will see more time from 6 to 8 getting guys up and ready to go. Centralized to the units. Paul-I don’t know that any of those are going to happen, its being talked about. We aren’t ready to say we are more inclined to do one over the other. Bonnie-no different than we do now. Troy-with our aging population we have to look at that and there will be a training for all staff when it does happen. Talked about October 1st but now looking at January. Plenty more info yet to come. Hesse-how to properly lift someone? Staff afraid that without training….troy-we have already started talking about all of that. Hesse-rumor about rebidding the Pexton units. Bonnie-No.
    14. 12.  Health Service Vacation Reduction: Hesse-in effect that for health services RN one slot and LPN have one. Now its one total. Why reduction and new system you are violating MNA or afscme contract. MNA class seniority and afscme is state seniority. Michelle-came as result of 10 hour scheduling. Working less shifts and more days off. Approving more than one wouldn’t meet business needs. If we approve one that is 140 hours we can approve. Accruing at 78 hours a pay period. We can approve without having high accruals. We looked at other programs. The rate we are approving is higher. There is a 6 percent among 2nd watch counselors. We have an 8 percent. Cates-you are still violating the contract. Liz-we are approving per contract and other areas of DCT practice one spot between classes. We have language that if one has further out time for vacation requests, we go by that for LPN or RN. Cates-what if RN has higher class than state. Michelle-we mesh the two for afscme and MNA. Liz-haven’t had any days with more than 1 request on same day. Hesse-2 lists you are violating a contract, no matter where you go. Nicole-MNA states class and afscme says state, we made it one list. Melissa-if there was a competing request. It will be based on class or state depending on the job class of the employees. Cates-says conflict will be decided by class seniority. You are deciding by 2 different seniority. Melissa-this isn’t the only place it happens. There is some history related to it. Its one of those situations we both have different interpretations. To us it complies. Hesse-with reduction it will impact staff morale. Morale is down and I can give reasonings. Vacation reduction, staff to client ratio is similar to Moose Lake. One less nurse means we have to absorb that. Nicole-I can provide some perspective regarding that, St Peter has 294 clients, 1 RN per 36.75 clients 1 LPN per 49 clients. Moose has 444 clients, RN to client is 1 to 37, LPN is 1 to 55.5. Overall it is pretty comparable 21 to 2 nurse. Hesse-Rumor of losing 10 hour shifts. LPN was changed to an OAS position. Nicole-The LPN was a moose lake LPN that was moved to St Peter OAS. Hesse-Pressure to be at CPS but staffing isn’t increased. Getting appointments scheduled in timely manner. Time it takes form pharmacy information. Increase pressure to hurry up by staff and clients. Feel they are unappreciated by supervisors. Management doesn’t spend time in office but compares to Moose Lake. Mention transfer to other areas due to pressure. Nursing is always a catch all. Requesting nursing reports to be completed in a short time. Concerns I have received from here. Nicole-we will meet with them and talk about those things. A position wasn’t filled. I will take a look at their concerns. I would add it started with one vacation notification and 10 hours shifts taken away. If we have to allow more than the one per spot. We may have to look at going back but it does help staff in the long run. Hesse-is it ok if labor is involved in that meeting? Nicole-no problem.
    15. 13.  Rec Visit Covering Kitchen: Hesse-new thing where Monday to Friday rec visit covers evening. Concern there is not enough staff to cover everything with activities and visits. During kitchen is their time to take breaks. If there is an overabundance to cancel programming it upsets clients.  Troy-similar what we provided on 3 about resources. In past we were assigning per unit. But then a unit will be left short, then another is left with 3. OD worked with Tim and taking wherever we do have more bodies. This is new to me but I will look into it. We have to look at. Stenger-what happened to warehouse post. Troy-like maintenance, they have been hammered the last two years. We have a retirement, one on leave. Its been adjusting resources where we are short.

Add Ons:

  1. 14.  Caulking Material: Hesse-concern they have to use material that says do not use inside. Supervisor said to keep using it. Safety concern if it says not to but being told. Bonnie-we will have to follow up.
  2. 15.  Jaime Leave early for meetings: Hesse-days of late meetings 3 times a year. Can she not take a break that day and just leave at 10. Liz-concern is language on breaks. Hesse-or if there is short notice that day. Liz-has she talked to her supervisor? Crystal-she usually takes vacation. Bonnie- We should be able to figure out for her to attend, she should talk to her supervisor ahead of the meetings.
  3. 16.  NOC overnight straight 8s/Rebid: Hesse-Reasoning? Bonnie-We continue to assess staffing needs. With first watch the staff briefings are shorter and the shift meets our needs. With transports they can’t get their break in so we are paying overtime. It just makes sense for them. We will look at all of our areas. Hesse-feedback is why aren’t we getting it? Bonnie-doesn’t fit our business needs at the moment. We looked at it and didn’t make a difference. Hesse-any thought of a rebid due to this? Bonnie-No. Chris shared that overnights are very happy. Stenger-feedback about A team needing it as well. When I was on A team there was always concern. Bonnie-Noted.
  4. 17.  Open Bids posting: Homer-asking about bids that are open. Why hasn’t Simons been posted along with others. bonnie-every single position is being evaluated from SMT and if we will fill those. As they are put in, they are being evaluated across the programs and central office.



  1. 1.      Subsequent Shift OT sign up: Bonnie-available 15 minutes prior to shift. Hesse-would be helpful to get an app.
  2. 2.      Roll call changes to straight up as of august 22nd! Cates-will it affect tardies. Bonnie-if they aren’t at roll call even if in building. Crystal-so if I pull keys at 6 and get there at 603 I’m late? Bonnie-we have been letting this go and we now decided to just be straight up. Crystal-roll call straight up won’t work because now we have to be to work early. Bonnie-no different than when we had meetings in the lobby. If you guys have suggestions we would like to have a good middle point. We are willing to listen to ideas. We have to draw the line somewhere. Cates-we will get back to you on ideas. Troy-people will be here at 604. Its that rush and trying to get that key pulled. It comes in to the same number. It started at 6 and some people are coming in at 604.

Adjourned at 110pm