August 2021 FMHP Meeting Minutes

AFSCME Labor/FMHP Management Meeting

August 19, 2021 1230PM

Administration Building


Attendance: Adam Castle, Ryan Cates, Steve Wilking, Eric Manriquez, Annie Jakacki, Jake Schoenecker, Marvin Sullivan, Scott Melby, Becky Robinson, Michelle Chalin, Alli Kuhlman, Carol Olsen, Denise Considine, Kristin

Reflection/Celebration: Carol-Joint commission went well. We had a low number of citations. Surveyors were complimentary of our program. Thanks to all the staff. Michelle-Wellness fair went well yesterday. Over 400 attended. We should think about and appreciate the reduction in staff and patient injuries over the past couple of months. Any injury is not good but kudos to staff on their hard work. Ryan-We like to see that as well, but we are hesitant because it can always change quickly. Carol-If anyone has input on what attributed to the change, let your supervisor know. Becky-We review the event summaries and they have been awesome at capturing the good negotiations and time to deescalate patients. That is sent to DCT administration to highlight the good catches and good interactions. Carol-Supplemental reports are being done well also. Becky-It is affecting DOC revocations and police investigations also. Scott-I have heard appreciation for the utility pool except Marvin (haha). The utility pool has been helpful with a variety of tasks.

Standing Agenda Items:

  1. Osha Information: Handouts from Alli
  2. 2.      Overtime Information: Handouts from Alli
  3. 3.      Budgeted Position Review: Carol-Meeting every week with HR to talk through positions. 12 dead bid FSSS. 1 internal call out. 8 in 1768 process. Haven’t received as many candidates lately. We defined we may need to do blast interviewing. We were successful hiring HSSS. As soon as there is a name on the list, it is sent out, they then reach out to that staff to come in. CNAs and HSSS reviews being done right now. HSSS for grove A was successful filling most of them. 2 RPA positions. 3 food service. WTA open, 3 GMWs open at this time. Budget managers met with finance to review budgeted positions and additional. First quarter of budget focus will be on filling current vacancies. It doesn’t make sense to add when we can’t fill the current ones. 2nd quarter we can look at budgeting for potentially adding more. Steve-Is there a bridge between utilizing cross training forensics and nursing home? Carol-They have to be CNAs in nursing home. We can’t find people. We look to see if they have the CAN right away and give those names to nursing home. Cates-any luck with volunteers? Denise-we had no takers on that. Carol-We had positions for CAN in training. We pay for them to go to school to get that and we can’t get anyone to do that either. We can have a few not CAN in nursing home that can do some tasks that frees up the CNAs. Chalin-census is lower in Nursing home right now, but we are seeing changes. We are in a better position than most in the community. They have had to suspend admissions because they have few staff. We had two HSSS in orientation last month and 4 that started yesterday. We have quite a few CNAs in nursing school. We have 5 staff in the next 6 month that will have their nursing license that may search elsewhere. Steve-The amount we have coming in, may not equal those going out. are you exploring different avenues as far as what the CNAs and HSSS can do? Chalin-yes, we advertised for CNAs in training and reaching out to Grove A HSSS. We will keep talking about it in the future. We accept admissions from MSOP and DOC as well. We need staff to provide the care. Development of the transport team has helped as well to keep certified staff in the building. Steve-Is there talk about additional incentives to work there? Carol-When we went forward with lead positions they were classified as residential. They don’t fall into SERP yet. We make sure the description matches the job. When HR does the review, it is comparable to the community. Chalin-There aren’t a lot of other long term care providers that have our pay and benefits. Ours is unique, with all the areas we serve.

Old Business




  1. 1.      COVID Issues/Protection Leave: Ryan-What is the process? Denise-Under new osha. An employee who tests positive doesn’t lose pay. If positive, they need to use own sick leave, if they don’t have any. They are placed on paid leave. MMB hasn’t created the code yet. Maximum of 10 days of pay, I think. 1400 a week or similar. Expected to use own sick leave first. Ryan-Do they get accruals? Denise-yes. Using sick leave accrues. The leave they use now does but am unsure of the new code. I think they would, but I will look. Ryan-How will you ensure they qualify? Denise-they provide proof. Marvin-why need to use their sick leave for it? Denise-It was based on OSHA guidelines. It says at no loss of pay. If sick, you use sick leave accruals which is contractual. Marvin-it looks like it incentivizes people to use sick time. Becky-same could be said about FMLA as well. Denise-I understand that concern, we have heard that. This is the way we have been told. I can go back and ask questions. This isn’t forensics specific; we didn’t make the rules. I will check to see if I can get a reason. Becky-people need to demonstrate proof, which is different. Previously with covid, we didn’t require documentation, this time they do. It goes to risk assessment folks. There is also where you get paid time to get vaccine or effects from the vaccine. Limited to four hours for receiving the vaccination and 8 hours if you have side effects from the vaccination. There was an email regarding symptoms and reporting to work with symptoms that are not from the vaccine as well. Some symptoms you get after the vaccine but also some that are not a result of the vaccine. Jake-Is it the same process if you are positive where you have to use sick leave? Denise-yes. Marvin-The questions are coming from people who never used covid leave at all.
  2. 2.      Grove A Vacation Spots: Ryan-The had meetings with our members and feedback is they want to split vacation spots. 1 to lpn and 2 to HSSS nights and weekends? There are 18 spots and 1 vacation spots. There is a lot of accruals but only offering 1 spot per day for 18 lpns. They can’t use their accruals. Carol-Jodi is still looking at it. Ryan-just want it in the minutes. Carol-we run reports on accrued vacation and the availability. We can do that again. Denise-we can look at that.
  3. 3.      Not Backfilling Units: Ryan-on the 17th late shift someone went sick and had no backfilling. Didn’t call the extra and told to run short. Scott-we had a no call no show that day that took one extra. Later, another staff went home sick which took the 2nd extra. Another stated they weren’t feeling well and said they would leave after a visit at 6. We had no one left. The unit was left with 1 staff less for 4 hours. Ryan-there was an available utility pool that did go and stay until 8. Scott-this is what I know from scheduling. I empower staff to use their creativity to go where they need to. We can also lean on nursing staff.
  4. 4.      Hazard Pay: Denise-Nothing new
  5. 5.      Lead Leveling Process: Denise-The interview questions group met Tuesday and finalized what they liked for the questions and scoring. I would like to find a time to go over those with you to go over and get your input and then move forward.
  6. 6.      HSSS Treated as GMWs in Grove A: Ryan-they are expected to clean staff and patient bathrooms on weekends. Becky-I have a meeting with Patty Kaelow on Monday. Patty was reviewing the policy for staff. We will broadly institute a guide for staff and their responsibilities. I will sit down with patty and think about resources for grove A. Deep clean for patients upon transfers. Ryan-Clean a patient bathroom and then serve trays. How hygienic? Becky-we have requirements to do surface cleaning once a day. Even beyond high touch areas per MDH, to do a wipe down once a day. Housekeeping is for deep cleaning. We should wipe down spaces once a day. Jake-we have patients that want to work. Is it policy? Becky-I don’t know. Tasks completed by residential workers would just be indicated on some units. Scott-Its possible a unit decided they wouldn’t have unit cleaners but maybe it was the unit. I don’t want to override that. Eric-It was an issue on Hickory where they said they couldn’t do that. Becky-I will ask compliance for any history.


New Business


  1. 1.      Safe Patient Handling Committee AFSCME Presentation: Scott-We would like some AFSCME representation. Ideally FSS from nursing and lindon. Ryan-I didn’t get much interest last time. Scott-I can work with getting people off of the schedule, but I need your help to find a volunteer from those areas. 4 meetings a year to make sure all areas are represented. We will work at freeing people up on the schedule.
  2. 2.      Masking Expectations: Carol-we are doing audits on mask compliance. We aren’t going after specific people. we get the numbers. Compliance is dropping. 70 percent and 57 percent. I told supervisors if they have coached someone multiple times, contact HR management. Tell your peers to wear them if that is happening. Ryan-I haven’t seen it in patient areas, it has been happening in break areas. Becky-It’s in hallways and residential areas. Steve-With the audit being done, we talked about informational piece letting people know what is going on. Can we let staff know what is going on in what area and the result? Make me aware if I do walk across a unit and see people not wearing it, I can say something. Carol-Even in office areas, you need to be mask compliant. 2 audits were on nights where it was 70 and 72. The 57 was from 606 to 650 this morning.

When Brian notices areas, he lets supervisors know that. Last week it was low also. To date, we have not performance managed anyone. If we don’t see better mask wearing, we need to hold people accountable. Brian isn’t identifying people. Scott-He is looking at numbers. If we have covid enter, and staff get sick, and osha is contacted. If they know we are not holding staff accountable, that isn’t acceptable. We want to know where this is. It’s getting to the point we need to target, but we don’t want to do that. We are asking for help to keep everyone safe. I am not aware of any particular person not wearing mask. Carol-If we have positive cases, mnosha will be called and then the leaders are held accountable for what is required. Scott-Your assistance is instrumental in this.

Masks are available in control center most of the time. Marvin-If that is the area. Eric-Is he counting those in areas by themselves? Scott-no. if we can’t tell if someone has a mask on, it isn’t counted. Primarily in patient care areas and hallways. Marvin-put out a memo about the control center. Scott-we have in the past. We can put another sign up. Steve-Certain staff have a contact person for masks, others do not. So, we need to keep that in mind as well. We need to have access if one breaks. Carol-we need to have an area for staff without a home base. Scott-if you don’t have access to one, call AODS office. They can get you one, or anything else you need. Carol-Supervisors can contact us for more masks as well.

  1. 3.      RPA Overtime: Denise-We are short on RPAs. After discussion with mape and afscme. What is normally an RPA shift, will be offered as overtime to RPAs and then to RTs and RT seniors. Ryan-It sounds like it will be on their days off. No issues. Denise-There is a sign up on their SharePoint as per the memo.


  1. 1.      Boundaries CBT Dress Policy: Ryan-Seems you are focusing on security staff. Carol-I can see where it was interpreted that way. It isn’t about what you are wearing, it’s about making sure you don’t look sloppy. Anyone can look sloppy. Jeans and t shirt can look professional too. CBT was not designed by us. There was a root/cause analysis done and staff didn’t take a boundaries class besides NEO. We wanted to make sure there was something that hit all of the areas we wanted people to know. Becky-This was a CBT created prior to dress code policy. It was not the intention. Scott-It does not say professional dress equals professional. Carol-It was a guy in a suit and tie is all. They are still working on the one for annual refresher so we can take that back. Steve-We have people doing dirty work around here as well that come in clean and then get dirty, so they are unable to look professional. Something to keep in mind. They are offended due to a profession they do.
  2. 2.      New Lead Positions: Becky-Budget manager requested it. Seeing where that goes. We want to hire our current openings, but we want to make sure units are more equitable to make it consistent. Steve-Timeline? Carol-it is not a promise. Steve-once you fill the current positions, then fill new ones. How will it all work? Carol-Right now the budget looks good but a lot of vacancies. We need to fill them aggressively to get to a place we are normally. Look at the budget and add more if we can. We don’t know how it will look next quarter. Steve-Will positions come with opening of new units? Becky-not likely. Carol-North campus added a lot of HSSS positions to properly staff it.  I was in north campus and they haven’t started construction yet. They need to do the remodeling first. They are estimating 6-week timeframe. Probably not in there until October now. We have staffing from b2s to forest view north. B2N to Birch. Old campus went to cedar. If we can hire all of the ftes, we would have it staffed. I am confident with positions we have allocated, we can adequately staff. Becky is adding to supplement with more. Steve-People are hearing rumor of new positions and would like to see how they connect.
  3. 3.      Grove Supervisor Schedules: Carol-Jodi has been working on it so staff can see who is supervising on nights and weekends. It will be on Atlas. It is complete. Becky-They are all grouped together so you can see who is available. Marvin-why did we add those supervisors? Becky-we are 24/7 operation. Why only offer support during business hours. One issue during this pandemic has been there is little facility support in non-business hours. Scott-Direct care staff have said it would be helpful for management support. Not only from AFSCME. Becky-There are a lot of reasons for doing this. Scott-Let Becky know if its feeling personal and we can follow up.
  4. 4.      Aspen and Birch Cameras in Staff Only Areas: Ryan-Are there any cameras in staff only areas? Carol-Brian said he removed some that were. Ryan-Back of unit station, office and nursing station hallway? Carol-There is a team room there so we would want one in the team room. Steve-off the landing is what I am thinking. They changed the structure. Becky-That is a team room. Carol-That is intended to be a group room. Becky-there may have been rumors because of when other units were open in the past. Since then, those were removed.
  5. 5.      Vacation Availability Issues: Ryan-Calendar in hand, 3 weeks ago in august it was red. Rescinding has been happening withing the 2 weeks which makes it difficult. Anything less than 40 hours, there is nothing contractual. Spots open up after posting which doesn’t allow staff to get it. Looking at ways to stop this from happening. Marvin-This gets into looking into rescinding but not requests prior to posting the schedule. I get the 28-day window but rescinding…Ryan-don’t allow rescinding inside of posting but it affects the bottom line. 40 or more is contractual prior to posting. Anything less than 40 there is nothing. It affects least senior staff the hardest.
  6. 6.      COVID Testing Mandate Questions: Ryan-I sent those with the agenda. Denise-Testing sites has not been determined yet. Groups are meeting to discuss. Testing will be paid by the state. MMB policy did say its paid time. Not sure how that looks. Will not use sick time for this. If they have medical or religious issues. We would go through ADA to address any of those concerns. Staff refusal of tests or vaccinated, they will be put on ETL status. Vaccination is a choice, but testing is there, and they would be put on ETL status and offer loudermill. We will start investigation and discipline process. Carol-Will patients be mandated vaccination or weekly testing? No. we encourage them to vaccinate. We are sitting at 74 percent across campus. We don’t know the number of staff or that actually reported outside of here.

Steve-Making sure we clarify it is targeted to patients going on social outings. The point of the test is to mitigate transfer. The patient going out and coming back isn’t helping the situation. Will community reintegration be limited? Carol-We aren’t looking at this right now but may limit to different counties based on prevalence. They are supposed to be wearing masks in buildings and our vehicles when they go out. Becky-Are there concerns? Steve-Just my opinion. We have covid, governor mandate in an effort combat covid. Then we come into state facility where we have to do all of these things but not holding other parties to the same standard. Carol-I hear that, and I also know we all have choices, and our patients don’t have the choice to be here. We are required to reintegrate safely. We are looking at the prevalence in the community. Steve-It was anticipated that if they refuse, It would result in ETL and discipline. If that’s the consequence, the patient has choices and are not being held to same standard and not being held back from a trip to the community.

Carol-They don’t have a choice to be here, we have the choice to be employed here. Chalin-They don’t have guidelines that are that specific. Mask all of the time, not more than so many people and social distancing. There hasn’t been anything from CDC mandating vaccines for those residing in a facility with access to the community. Denise-Staff cannot report to work with positive test. They will be contacted by risk assessment team and will make assessment for when to return to work. Need to use sick leave. If they don’t have it, there is a new policy. Do not have to use vacation or comp. Ryan-Can staff refuse to work with a staff that is not vaccinated by own declaration. Denise-If someone shares that, we have masks and precautions in place. There are a lot of people not vaccinated. I would say you can’t refuse to work and follow the procedures. Refusal is not recommended. There may be consequences. No work areas for vaccinated and non-vaccinated staff. Ryan-If someone is vaccinated but wants to be tested weekly, can they? Carol-Testing is free for anyone. Ryan-If there is a testing site...Denise-this has not been determined yet, they are in the process of how it looks and what it will look like. I don’t know the answer to that yet. Marvin-If vaccinated outside of here is that recorded? Denise-they are working on a program that you can upload vaccination card but will not be retained. The information that you were vaccinated will be. There is talk of a booster and we will address if that happens.


Add Ons:

  1. 1.      GMWs offered shift changes for weekend coverage: Eric-GMWs are short 3 staff. They are being offered shift change for weekend coverage. They get offered weekdays off, but it leaves them short other days. Why not offering overtime for those weekends? Scott-I can’t answer that now. I will need to do some research. Sometimes with a small group, they can get tired. I don’t know what their budget is. Eric-There are people interested in overtime.


Meeting Adjourned at 218pm