April 9th 2020 MSOP Meet and Confer

AFSCME MSOP Labor Management

April 9th, 2020

Human Resources Room



Attendance: Adam Castle, Ryan Cates, Annie Juckaki, Steve Wilking, Nick Weerts, Eric Hesse, Bonnie Wold, Michelle Sexe, Tory Sherwood, Tim Lokensgard, Bonnie Wold, Michelle Breamer, Paul Rodriguez, Ryan Kern, Denise Considine



Follow Up Items

  1. Inverse Numbers-Tim-Month of March-4 staff on 1st watch 7.5 hours. 12 staff on 2nd for 28.75 hours. 2 staff 3rd for 6.75. Total of 43 hours.
  2. Overtime Numbers- 626.5 hours
  3. AFSCME included in MNA Contract-Kern-Wondering how OT is offered? Hesse-That, and the stuff I emailed you…Kern-I thought it was just the overtime. I will follow up with Denise.
  4. Security Counselor Lead Leveling Process-

New AFSCME Items

  1. Covid Leave/CRC leaves-Hesse-what is the process for granting? It is inconsistent. Kern-The problem may be depending on the timing the employee applied for covid. There have been a lot of changes. Quite a few would now qualify. They can resubmit the form. If anything changes, resubmit to HR. Probably qualify now. Hesse-what is process? HR huddles up? Kern-We are gathering info from employee on why they are requesting. It’s a Situation by situation basis. Quite a few that weren’t covered initially are now. It is available. Hesse-wondering why staff are not getting accruals during covid leave. It was initiated because it is to hold the employee harmless. They are losing accruals. I know its MMB but why? Kern-There was never a reason given why they decided. You would have to talk to MMB. Hesse-Overnight staff not getting covid for taking care of children apply for the leave to take care of child? They need to be there. For a lot of overnights that is there sleep time. Now, with no school they have to be up during that time. Kern-problems I have had have been daytime staff. Denise was dealing with one. It all depends on what type of leave they qualify for. It is spring break now but if the child falls into that age range, they don’t get to waive that option with the covid leave. Hesse-you wouldn’t deny it based on it wasn’t that time to work. Kern-I don’t know, but Denise did deny it because that person did have care for that child. That is where she is standing on that. Hesse-in that circumstance, overnights are unhappy, if we can find that out that would be great. Kern-I will check with Denise. Hesse-For people out on covid leave. Say a CRC, is there someone available to cover that service? Bonnie-Yes, there are plans to cover as needed. Deploy other staff.
  2. Infirmary Unit-Hesse-Is there more info on how we will staff? If there aren’t enough volunteers? Michelle Breamer-do you guys have any ideas? We put out requests for volunteers. Tim-we have 3 staff on 3rd, 3 staff on 2nd and 2 staff on 1st watch volunteers. I sent them an email that said thank you and you are on the list. They expressed interest prior to the notification and I just made sure they were still willing. I will wait to hear if they change their minds. Hesse-are there going to be more? Tim-always willing to take more volunteers but as of now that should cover. Hesse-What about sick calls and vacation? Tim-one staff being the norm as of now, increase to 2 if it fills up. The 3 should be able to cover but the 2 will have to adjust. We will keep asking for volunteers. We haven’t talked about who we would ask. Hesse-someone could have day off, leaving one staff that calls in then what? Inverse from previous shift to limit staff? Tim-open to suggestions. I don’t know what forensics is doing. Cates-we have been given no information in forensics related to this yet. Hesse-If someone were to be assigned to cover, are they given the right to refuse because it could be life threatening work? Bonnie-we haven’t worked out any of these details yet. We can work together on this. I want to remind everyone that our isolation unit is for very mild cases only. The severe cases that are life threatening will not be in here. We are open to suggestions and work together to get through these unknowns. Hesse-just because one isn’t severe they can pass it to be severe. Steve-PPE is in short supply everywhere, will that be supplied? Michelle Breamer-yes we would deploy the supplies there. Most tasks have to be done with the door closed and won’t be any immediate interaction between clients and staff. Hesse-any talks about doing anything with the schedule on that unit for incentive? Limiting amount of staff exposed? Bonnie-willing to talk about that. Hesse-any plans for those staff to meet with them to go through logistics? Tim-yeah, just waiting for the responses then sit down to go over the post orders. Michelle Breamer-the post orders are available for everyone to look at. We have been running drills. Hesse-any specific duties for nursing when on unit? Michelle Breamer-depends on client for what interventions are needed. Case by case. Will look at meds, etc. we have a plan for med pass. Clients using bathroom. Depends on the clients’ needs. No definitive post order. Hesse-essentially driven by health services. Operations for security. So more defined job for health services? Michelle Breamer-yep, it will take communications between the two. I can’t black and white say this and this. Hesse-Operations has post orders so we know what it’s going to be. Nurses would appreciate the same thing to have an idea. Which would also help you guys. Then staff can add input to make good changes. Michelle Breamer-we have a nursing flow sheet as well for this. Hesse-flow sheet is just assessing isn’t it? Michelle Breamer-I can’t foresee what that case would look like. I can’t spell it out, it will be in nursing care plan or medical orders when we have a patient up there. If someone can’t make it to bathroom, a nurse would provide a urinal empty it so often. We can anticipate anything. Hesse-cleaning and sanitizing. Clients responsible for shower and bathrooms. Any plans of deeper cleaning and who performs that? If the client can go back to unit, who is responsible for cleaning? Michelle Breamer-staff will work with GMW to do weekly cleaning. Staff would witness clients cleaning their bathroom and shower. Standing 6 feet away and observe them. Hesse-so normal business is a barrier but now we aren’t doing that? Michelle Breamer-no, because staff is assigned a mask for a week to apply the mask when they go. Hesse-mask and gloves? Not gowns? Michelle Breamer-if not within 6 feet of clients, you don’t need a gown. The alternative is staff cleaning these after each use. Hesse-that makes no sense and good luck with volunteers. Bonnie-we are following CDC regulations. Cates-you may be but if you think a staff wants to go out and deal with them without all the ppe you are fooling yourself. Annie-if you have multiple clients on the unit and a staff has to go out to monitor the client cleaning the bathroom. That is a safety concern. Bonnie-all of the clients are in their room. Only one client out at a time. Nick-someone will want to use the restroom when someone is using the shower. Maybe even 2 will need to use urgently. That staff will have to monitor that client. Michelle Breamer-it will depend on the situation, I agree. That path can be fluid depending on the number. We can look at providing a urinal and come out less often to empty it. Bonnie-we have a lot of unknowns. It’s good to be prepared. Michelle mentioned it will be fluid and we will make changes daily. Staff safety and security at the top of the list. Nick-we realize that. We need to think about staff verifying and monitoring the cleaning of the shower. How one staff will stand there for an hour to watch a shower? Michelle Breamer-Recommendation came from the infection control group which includes professionals. Moose Lake is using staff to disinfect these areas and we chose to go this way instead. Nick-I don’t want to be in there when they clean. Am I just watching from outside or inside? Michelle Breamer-prop door and observe client cleaning. Hesse-if we need to observe the cleaning, we may need to be in there to see. Michelle Breamer-monitor from outside the doorway, we don’t have to monitor the quality. If you can visually see the client is doing the work. Annie-there is no way to be able to actually see the client doing it. They can’t see, unless in the bathroom. This means they can’t monitor. Michelle Breamer-are you able to stand in the doorway? Hesse-yeah, but they could be pretending. If we aren’t ensuring quality, why are we doing it? It takes 15 minutes to do a shower and we are out in the hallway, how can we answer these concerns? Nick-we agree sanitizing needs to happen but if we aren’t ensuring the quality, it seems pointless. Michelle Breamer-so what do you suggest? Nick-take it on faith they are cleaning. Annie-whether you have staff doing these actions. If staff are being asked to do this for them, they don’t have a visual on the unit. Only one staff on unit is the issue. I get that other clients are supposed to be in their rooms but we don’t know that will happen. Stuff can still happen and only have that one staff in a bathroom. Michelle Breamer-I will take back to command post and look at the process. Bonnie-Will Eric work with us on coming up with a solution? You have concerns and I would like to work on this together. Eric-any pandemic plans? Bonnie-Its discussed daily. Similar to post orders and had Eric look over them. Eric-I am willing but need to know when. Steve-my recommendation is we need to get this plan figured out quickly and if things haven’t been discussed…we could have a covid case tomorrow. Troy-I appreciate that and that is the point. Now this is out, I will schedule someone to sit down and figure it out. Annie-for weeks we hear “bringing that to command post.” Any direct staff on command post? Annie-every time we have a meeting, we get “yep, this is what command post decided.” All of this could have been decided with a direct staff to be included to help come up with this information. Let’s eliminate the trial and error. Why aren’t there people working with individuals. Bonnie-we are including them in the process when coming up with plans. We haven’t had to implement yet. When we developed these plans, we ran it by Eric and that is what we are doing now. A lot of this stuff comes down from CDC. We don’t have wiggle room on this stuff. We work with the central command post. Eric-good idea to meet with volunteers sooner. They may have different questions than I would come up with. Bonnie-good idea.
  3. PPE Usage and Hand Sanitizer/Paper towels-Hesse-where are we at with orders for ppe and sanitizer for staff? Bonnie-sanitizer has been ordered in large amounts. They are being placed in smaller bottles and sent out. Michelle Breamer-we put in orders to vendors. They are allocating resources. Nationwide shortage so we have to use what we have. Prevention group is posting guidance when to use PPE to conserve. CDC puts out the recommendations due to the shortage so we follow that. Eric-rumor PPE is expired? Michelle-We got N95 masks from Moose Lake. They were not given an expiration date but they were collected and shipped to St. Paul. Having an industrial hygienist go through to decide if they are good. We received a supply this week. Hesse-why was the ppe taken from units. Michelle-appeared they weren’t full or expired. I went through them and re packaged and returned them. Wanted to make sure they were in good condition. Hesse-not in centralized location? Report on homepage was different. Michelle-they are on the units. Hesse-it was on staff announcements. Michelle-it was a miscommunication. Bonnie-I think that is a plan with the remaining ppe supply. Nick-we should re-word that announcement so people aren’t confused. Eric-staff wondering why we aren’t wearing masks. Michelle-staff should have received an email from DCT that they can wear their own for now if they choose. In the future, there will be some provided. Bonnie-vocational has manufactured a lot of masks for all of DCT patients and clients. Eric-staff is wondering why we have to provide PPE. Michelle-nationwide shortage. We would if there wasn’t a shortage. Vendors are not sending them out. Hospitals are begging for these right now. News focuses on homemade everything. There is no manufacturer able to keep up. Eric-What is the process for staff coming through sally port? Bonnie-we will be getting those procedures out soon. Tim-I will check if that is going out soon. Eric-plans for increased paper towels on units? People washing hands more often. Can we get them in bathrooms instead of hand dryers? Bonnie-there are supplies in bathrooms. Hesse-increased supply? Bonnie-work with ordering if you are out. Eric-we only get a ration for a week. Nick-I ordered and didn’t get my supply last week. We will be out soon. They haven’t been showing up. Bonnie- I can check. Paul-I will look into that.
  4. Hazard Pay-Hesse-members asking what the state is doing for hazard pay. Other business are getting more money. Bonnie-we have no control over this. Hesse-reason? Bonnie-As Mel said yesterday in the weekly labor meeting, this is not our authority, this is an MMB ask.  Hesse-reasoning is that mmb has decision to do it, not locally. It was communicated yesterday that labor has to advocate before mmb. It would be great for the employer to advocate also. It shows employees you are thinking of them. It would be a good faith motion to up morale during these times. To show the Employer has their backs, trying to get the pay for them, trying to get PPE ordered - these are the issues. So the members have a good faith motion by the employer to get this stuff. Kern-so, hoping that we will come together to mmb for the employees? Hesse-bargaining is pressuring it. It would also be good for admin as well. Bonnie-Ryan Cates mentioned that yesterday, and Mel explained it’s not something Admin has the authority to do. Hesse-you can communicate with staff but run up the chain before you do so. Kern-I’ll bring it up again. Hesse-we hear what management is doing for us. But it’s not being communicated what you are doing for us. There needs to be something communicated or run around to units and talk to staff about the issues. Bonnie-okay, we hear you.
  5. Health Services Straight Shifts-Hesse-There was a poll conducted for straight 8 shifts. It was all or nothing. Basically not all wanted it but isn’t this the right thing to do to limit the interactions? Ultimately if it’s good for health. Michelle Breamer-I have a request to HR right now who is reviewing it. Kern-you would be okay to do that. Michelle-there you go, we will go to straight 8s. Paul-is there a way Labor and Management can work together that we hear your concern and Management aren’t the bad guy forcing someone to do something they don’t want to do? Hesse-ultimately that is your choice. Michelle- we have a plan in place. Nick-talking about straight 10s too right? Michelle-yes.
  6. Status of Nursing Dept Transitioning to Atlas Scheduler-Nick-MNA rep reached out also. Michelle Breamer-Met with DeAtley and scheduled meeting to ensure we have staff in there and we will roll out training. Nick-schedule came out a day late this last time? Michelle-yes, one. Nick-anyone scheduled on April 15th qualify for overtime? Michelle-already on that. Nick-I will take that on faith and not move forward.
  7. New Client Referral process for nurses and Follow up on daily “huddles”-Nick-common point Michelle for all concerns and referrals? Michelle-yes, I have had about 3 since talking about it. Nick-how are daily huddles going? Michelle-I don’t think he (Nurse Practitioner John Gemlo) has been in there for many of them. I haven’t heard feedback but it’s not always necessary for him to be there. If nurses needed to consult they could call him. He has the time blocked off for this. Nick-it’s only happened twice since the d15th. I don’t know why he isn’t participating. I’ll let you figure that out. In theory, it sounds great.
  8. Health Services Inversing-Nick-Concerns about being inversed 2 days in a row. Might be going with the scheduling issues. Michelle-Concerned about inversing 2 days in a row or before day off? Nick-yes. Michelle-we are so small and minimums are low that it will play out that way unfortunately. Nick-I understand but we can all understand being inversed two days in a row. I think the concerns are from scheduling. I assume that was being looked at when configuring rotations on the new schedule? Intermittents? Michelle-We have one intermittent. Nick-do you do preassigned overtime there? When schedule is light, etc. Michelle-yes. When it is posted, the open spots are there for people then awarded by seniority. Nick-great if we could get the schedule to not inverse before day off.
  9. CPS Property/SCs helping out-Hesse-SC’s helping with property. Why is that happening? Paul-fluctuation in our mail and property throughout the year. We have the one staff and there are times when assistance would help. At those times, frequently we assign someone to assist. Nick-there is concern that you have one special services staff who requires assistance every day. Its one thing to help out because of a holiday but if you need for help every day, that’s not unique. Paul-it may be every day. You are right, we have one person. It is possible he will need more assistance. Hesse-concern is they aren’t trained, at first there were volunteers but now having all staff go through there. Sexe-that is correct, with not having outings and visits, we are utilizing resources to assist. Our clients are locked in the building, we are trying to accommodate them as well. We asked for volunteers and didn’t get any so we are using staff there. Ryan is training. We didn’t have enough volunteers. I had two and with their days off, sick days, etc. not adequate. Nick-no one has a problem helping out once in a while. This was happening before covid. At some point, we were going to have to look at the structure. Sounds like a systemic issue. Pulling someone from outside the class to do the job. I’m thinking long term, the problem will still be there. Sexe-I agree and we have had meetings with labor to fix this. I would love to have another staff to be in there. Paul-we don’t have the ability so we make do with what we have. Nick-I have gotten a lot of information from Ryan, and I have a lot of ideas how to fix this. Sexe-Ryan and I have had a lot of conversation on how to streamline. He also will be meeting with Paul and I. that was delayed but is on our radar. Paul-he met with me a month ago. We have not been able to continue during these times. Our goal is to make it more efficient. If staff can let us know what would help, let us know. Or if they need more training, come talk to us.
  10. PX1S client 1:1-Hesse-is it necessary to be outside the door right now? Can they wear a mask? Can wear their own if they choose. With social distancing, there isn’t any amongst the clients. Is it possible to use intercom like the female staff? Staff is only needed when he gets up. Michelle-levels are implemented based on his history, he manipulates the surgical site. Then staff contact us to let us know what he is doing. Rather than just being there for the bathroom. It’s related to self-injury on his body. So we need someone there. Troy-he is a vulnerable adult too so we need to remember that. Hesse-concern is also that staff is out there so close to other clients. Bonnie-we can remind staff to remind clients to maintain social distancing.
  11. Screening Process Pay-Hesse-staff wondering since it is a work duty that we have to perform to work, it should be on paid time. Annie-I had this discussion with Melissa. Require staff to come in early. Response was, if they agree being asked to come early for work related, they need to be paid for that. If that is happening in Moose Lake, it needs to happen here. Bonnie-we haven’t asked anyone to come in early. Hesse-have to come in on time. Steve-if they are getting the screening, we need a guarantee they won’t be held accountable. We can’t guarantee how long that line is. 601, 602. Annie-if you are going to straight 8s. They are relieving someone. If there isn’t a backup, that forces overtime. Hesse-we have a unique situation on this campus. Others are probably in the entry way. The issue is we have one location around the same time. Have to come in early to be screened to be on time. Bonnie-I appreciate that. When there is construction, we plan accordingly. Screening is to keep us safe. I know we went to 8s to unclog the process but maybe we need to go back to 8.5 but we will look at it. We can talk about the options. Nick-have there been issue with staff getting to units in a timely manner? Bonnie-no. Nick-maybe just reassure people that if you are held up, you won’t be penalized. Hesse-I would hate to blow up the system and go back to 8.5, that kind of an overreaction. Bonnie-I hear you nick and we have had people that show up a couple minutes late and we aren’t talking to them. Annie-in order to get to the unit, they have to come early. It’s not quick. Can we make sure that staff that do come in early are being compensated? Kern-I can’t even say yes, it would have to be up to MMB. Annie-I will talk to Melissa then.
  12. Hiring/Orientation Plan-Hesse-are we still hiring? Tim-yes. Hesse-smaller pools? Limiting how many we hire at a time? Tim-they look at that all the time. In MSOP we have one dead bid. We have not had any SC groups bigger than ten. I’m not sure about other departments. Bonnie-the last time we had neo we modified it. Didn’t do tours. They are aware of the times we are in. Hesse-we are using proper distancing? Bonnie-hasn’t come up yet but we will be doing that. Hesse-self-defense and control tactics, not participating in? Bonnie-yes. Hesse-is that safe to put staff on units with no training? Bonnie-we agree, doing the best we can under these circumstances. Hesse-will the staff be going to classes after this is all done? Bonnie-that is our plan Eric. Hesse-maybe to just walk through the training and demonstrate? Tim-I think that is what is going on. Trying to walk through it as much as they can.
  13. Overtime/Inverse Breaks-Hesse-per contract, a 15 minute break in between. Some staff wondering if that can be increased. Cates-just some time to get food since they need more time now. Forensics does it. Bonnie-any time we inverse, we are flexible with that.
  14. CPS Unit Monitoring-Nick-what can you tell me about this direction? Sexe-mike and Gary met with leads. With all of the staff, they are all in the unit station. Please move where clients are. Unit, yard, Tomlinson. Make sure you do that. Just have not seen that happening so with all the staff without appointments. We need to spread out staff and to know where everyone is. This is new and looking at recommendations as well. Nick-no more than one staff in unit station? Sexe-we looked at staff areas for distancing. Direction is no more than 2 in the station. Nick-what did the email say? 1 or 2? Sexe-I believe it was 2 going off of memory. Hesse-was this decision made because someone walked out and saw 4 or doing a camera review? The problem is if you are only seeing a snippet of time if that’s the case. Sexe-we don’t have cameras in the station. It was multiple times by many supervisors. I asked why everyone was in there and there was not a valid reason why. Not just a snippet of time. Nick-staff being assigned to be recreation helper? Sexe-that is correct since we have a lot of staff. The count changed, so rec has already scheduled their group. We ask that an SC goes with the rec staff to facilitate count. Nick-is staff individually assigned? Why are they assigned? A unit can’t make that decision. Sexe-I would love that to work. Overall the OD was struggling with knowing where staff was. This is also a way to manage the large amount of staff. So they know they are responsible for it. Nick-I appreciate that but I have concerns with micromanaging to the point of assigning someone. The person today had 3 activities then after someone took her walk got in trouble for that. Sexe-that’s a unique situation you don’t have the details about. We can’t talk about that here but we can problem solve it. It’s subject to change and we can talk more about this. Annie-what are numbers used for groups. More than 10 people in the room for those situations. Any group that has clients and staff in it. More than 10? Paul-cps all groups are under 10 clients including staff. Bonnie-same for perimeter. Nick-are the ODs giving snv as much as possible to thin the heard? Bonnie-we have our 930 meeting and evaluate needs. Snv might be in the past. Our numbers keep getting lower. Paul-at least one staff left on snv recently. Nick-if we are tripping over each other then you know. Hesse-yesterday I was on the unit with 4 other staff.

Management Agenda Items

  1. Shift Change on Straight 8s-Tim-I want to mention that going to this was a big move. We need to think about a good solid shift change. We have seen people leaving 2, 3, 4 minutes before end of the shift. It’s a hectic situation. I want to remind everyone to make sure you are staying in perimeter up until that 6, 2, 10 timeframe and keep social distancing. Go to social center, etc. Hesse-I want to reiterate we don’t need to blow up straight 8s. Tim-I’m saying you brought this forward thinking about things that are problematic. I hear you. Hesse-this is a new system. I think it will subside and work itself out. Tim-I hope so. We try to do things for the right reason. We will keep monitoring it. Hesse-you don’t care if they leave the unit as long as there is a good shift change. Just don’t leave perimeter until straight up? Tim-correct. People are coming in for the next watch. Who is on the unit if people are heading out the door? I assume waiting for relief. I’m questioning a lot of things. If you do a good shift change and one takes off and heads out. The other two do a shift change. As long as they are letting people know what is going on, I’m ok with heading out the door of the unit and getting to the perimeter door at straight up because everyone should be in. Hesse-you want to ensure people are in. Tim-I’m curious because it is kind of what I was hearing today. I have no problem thinking about it and having more discussion.
  2. Client who spit on staff-Troy-The client who spit on staff is being charged with felony and probation violation. He has a court hearing beginning of June. He was notified. His letter said 4 felonies. Bonnie-we did notify staff that was involved. Tim-yes, because he was going to get an affidavit and subpoenaed by court.
  3. Staff redeployment-Bonnie-all staff may get re-deployed to other areas within DCT. This includes forensics as well.
  4. Working on doing virtual forum through WebEx-Bonnie-we thought it was important to get out and connect. It has been difficult with our staggering of shifts. Paul, Brenda and myself will figure out a way to connect with staff.
  5. Michelle Sexe-OD received a call from another staff that a staff has COVID. This is a rumor and a privacy issue. Make sure you are squashing those rumors if you hear it.
  6. Screening refusals-Refusing does not qualify you for COVID leave. You would be expected back the next day. Cates-we had an issue here at MSH. They feel like going in that tent with other staff going into the same tent, exposes them. Nothing is sterilized. You are going to get it in that tent is the concern. Kern-they test the air quality in the tent? Cates-eventually, when the weather gets nice, you can take temps in cars or outside. Annie-The privacy piece is another concern. Staff were asked to go in and have temp taken in ear shot of other staff. It doesn’t allow for privacy. Asked for alternate option to complete the screening if requested. Steve-SCs are also doing screening. So that is another issue. Bonnie-any staff available. We appreciate the concerns.



Adjourned at 152pm