5/10/18 MSOP Meeting Minutes

AFSCME Labor Management MSOP

May 10th 2018

Pexton 200 12pm


Attendance: Adam Castle, Matt Stenger, Crystal Kreklow, Ryan Cates, Eric Hesse, Tim Lokensgard, Jamie Sheppard, Elizabeth TrandumTrandem, Mike GoeghlinGoeglein, Jamie Sheppard, Scott Halverson, Michelle Sexe, Paul Rodriguez



  1. Follow Up Items
    1. OT/Inverse Numbers: JR on Vacation will have next week in time for minutes
      1. 1st Watch             47 staff, 230 hours
      2. 2nd Watch            44 staff, 211.5 hours
      3. 3rd Watch            20 staff, 126.75 hours
  2. Atlas App & Vacation/OT: Tim-Haven’t heard. JR mentioned to Marie Rose in St. Paul. Cates-Forensics can see all overtime in formation and when it was approved or denied. Hess-DCT wide for app. Tim-Anoka is working on it now. MHSATS and others may be. I haven’t heard. Matt-All DCT at some point. Matt-use as leverage to come down on price if it is DCT wide.
  3. Hospital Coverage-Seniority-Mike G-needs to be assigned as neededbased on needs of facility. Can’t do straight seniority unless it is advancedfor overtime. But during shift, regular coverages by needs. Gets to be too many moving parts. Don’t want to put two new staff for hospital coverage in placefor example. Hesse-isn’t when no volunteers you use least senior. Mike-there are times. Hesse-so we should be consistent. Mike gG-if there is someone something more difficult, we may send someone who is more familiar. I will talk to the OD to make sure that is not the case.
  4. South House-Hesse-sent everything like vacation…Tim-vacation is those 6 will have one vacation per day. Hesse-they will be pulled into perimeter so, kind of like cpsCPS. Our stance is to never limit, we think it makes more sense if added into pool here. Tim-we are not taking any away here. We are adding there. 6 people in pool with different rotation, there will be days when there is extras. Person doing schedule, a 3rd shifter may be switched. It was said varies in the posting. Just as an OD may be working a different shift once in a while based on vacation. 6 person team working together, can mutual. Matt-thinking schedule is 6 to 2 and then may be difficult to find daycare. Tim-will know 2 to 4 weeks ahead of time and can mutual, even with cross trained staff here. Matt-it was difficult for anyone to get an early and may run into the issue again with a smaller pool. Jamie-with control center, there is a small pool as well. Tim-I don’t know how else we can do it unless you have ideas. We need to revisit work areas, then itsit’sits part of the work area then we lose consistency. Matt-rotating shifts would work but people already accepted. That would solve vacation issue. Tim-I would guess based on needs of house. People out there are temp reassigned. Hesse- 6- 2 rotations straight 8 hours, OT/Inversing?. Tim-we pay mileage as it is a different work area. If you are inversed, if it happens in perimeter we are good and have extras we will send someone out there.. ItsIt’s cheaper to send trained staff out there. If OT inside, it doesn’t pay. Hess-there are issues with 24 in 48 hour rule. People call in sick more than 1 day, leaves people inversed. Michelle-we have cross trained staff we will send. Hesse-if there are there, then itsit’s an inverse. Last minute stuff happens. Tim-if its 6am and someone shows up here. They are out there by 630. Hesse-but if they were inversed the day before…Mike-there may be times for unforeseen circumstances. Hesse-still violates 24 in 48. Liz-if you feel it has been violated, you can file a grievance. We have to start somewhere, we will try to find coverage. May not have someone there at 6. Hesse-only select few were cross trained. Beneficial to increase the pool? Tim-4 on each watch have been with plus those that have been temps. Temps will now be extras. Up to 6 per watch. If we run into problems, we will expand that pool based on interest just like any other pool. Michelle-we had to move quickly because we didn’t see who would be cross trained and we will expand that. Tim- it only takes 30 minutes. Hesse-days that you are heavy, 2 people out there then the other will be here. Tim-times when 2nd person may be transporting on an outing. Hesse-how is that delegated? Tim-by seniority right now. I think least senior gets sent back. Michelle-when you get permanent the 6 of them can maybe figure it out. We talked about letting permanent staff select what they want. Tim-do you want us to mandate it? I would say no. , they can figure it out. Tim-I’m not going to schedule them here because we will have to pay mileage. I schedule them there. Michelle-3rd watch is working it out together. Permanent will do the same.
  5. Additional Vacation Allotments for summer- Hesse-moose Moose Llake is up on heavy days and open more days for summer. Tim-ML does it differently than we do. They only have 3 rotations. Not 6. When 3 come out, time book day is like a regular Tuesday, Wednesday. Middle of the pay period is heavy days. Every single counselor that is able to, is on those 2 days. 110 scheduled that day and only need 60. That’s how they can do that. We spread ours out so we are heavier but we still have the rotations that are off on their 4 day. We don’t have every counselor off on those days. Our Tues, w/Wed we don’t have much short notice vacation and just had OT this last Wednesday. Based on the fact we didn’t get staffing for lower access and south house. We are scraping the bottom. They can talk to me more about it and I can explain it to them.
  6. Inversing/Report Writing- Hesse-itsit’s come up again that someone had to stay passed shift for report. Next day od OD inversed them and said it didn’t count. Mike-if they are required to stay passed they should contact the OD and it does count as the inverse. It has been communicated. Tim-if an incident happened at 930 and someone comes to me that they have to write a report, we will ask them why they didn’t get it done. Contact the OD if this is the issue. If staff has a trip and they don’t have time, contact the OD to tell them the situation when it happens.
  7. OSI Briefings-Hesse-every month there is a briefing and always falls on inopportune times for attending. No opportunity for 3rd watch or on a Friday and may not allow people to attend. Mike-usually don’t go over half hour. So maybe like a shift change. Tim-we will talk to OSI too.
  8. Cancel OT to inverse-Hesse-someone working 2nd watch had preapproved advanced OT 1st watch but was then inversed for 3rd watch. So they already prepped to work the shift they were approved. Cates-we have won grievances with this issue already. Matt-remedy was to just give it to the next least senior. Tim-it has happened when no one is inversible. Mike-we can definitely go to next one but there will be times someone is inversed for 2nd time. Cates-when itsit’s accepted and scheduled, it is a scheduled shift. You can’t take away a scheduled shift. Mike-OK. Approved. Not just signed up. Tim-we’ll communicate. We’ll follow it. Matt-I ask when offering overtime as full shift but have potential of getting out early, that be communicated.
  9. Weather Call-ins/tardies-Vacation- Hesse- any updates? Liz-we pulled a list and working through to see what they would like to use. Started this week. Hesse-has it been communicated that weather can be used? Liz-we need communication before next winter. For that instance it was approved. It can has to come at a higher level at than the program. We will try to do this ahead of time. Crystal-at DCT had decided that if weather related, vacation was acceptable state wide. Liz-correct, but also it’s on a case by case basis. Matt-commissioner had to make the call but understand people in areas farther away from work place but must be deemed by commissioner. Hesse-Using vacation for approved tardies. ? You’ve said our contract doesn’t allow for it to be used and we can’t find Nothing anything in the contract that says only comp or ETL. We disagree. Liz- the Vacation article? Iit’s competitive, the language states when vacation is limited it has to be offered by seniority. Matt-SNV is not done by seniority. There are times we go outside. Liz-that’s not only MSOP practice. I’ll bring to DCT level to Mel. Forensics offers same way as MSOP. If you did have approved, it would be either approved ETL or comp. Cates-no, they use vacation too. Hesse-new policy states use comp or vacation. Liz-that wasn’t my understanding of the practice at forensicsForensics. I will clarify to be consistent between the two.
  10. Hospital Coverage-Hesse-client in hospital that required 2 staff but dropped to 1. Staff thought it was due to comatose type state then showed up and they were the only one there. Difficult to get breaks in also. Hospital staff don’t want to sit there for a half hour. What is criteria for admin to reduce to 1? Mike-client was unable to stand on their own. Wasn’t inn a coma but was unable to stand. WereWe’re trying to send staff over for breaks since it was local. Tim-if they aren’t able. They can get overtime. Matt-should always have 2 because they can make allegations. It protects the staff from allegations as well. Cates-also protects the organization. Tim-we don’t do this very often. Michelle- only CPS clients. Hesse-itsit’s always an issue when staffing is reduced to 1. When I saw him, he was up and about. Tim-he was directly sent to nursing home. Mike-started with 2 then continued to decompensate and sent to nursing home. That’s the information we had when we went down to 1. But we can inform staff that it has been changed and even do at shift change for everyone to know.
  11. Cafeteria Coverage-Hesse-reducing numbers on unit to cover cafeteria again. 3 hours on unit with one staff. Now with the atmosphere, it is a concern. Supplies aren’t getting ordered as well. Mike- I asked Steve to look into the consistency. Food services should be responsible for that. Crystal-our concern is the staff being left on the unit especially with clients being upset with what is going on right now. Matt-resolve one resolution is to have permanently sat and reason is due to property. We could have had counselors do this as well and even do weekends. Tim-we will follow up with Steve and how to get someone there. He is short staffed right now too. We had have an intermittent in there Tues, wed, Thurs just an FYI. Mike- mainly 3rd watch? Hesse-starting at 3 and all the way to 6.
  12. Activity Building Coverage-Hesse-construction they pulled monitors so now they have to be posted in each room. There is concern with safety aspect. If something is in gym and music. They are totally cut off. If there is music playing, no one would know what is going on. Mike-like the drums… it’s difficult to hear with the music?crystal Crystal-unsafe to have staff member in room. Mike-can be in hallway. ItsIt’s an all glass wall, they don’t need to be in the room. I asked to not have multiple activities at same time on opposite sides. Hesse-communication with rec staff. Direction is that they have to be in the room of the activity. Mike-I will clarify. They need to focus on the room. We can clarify that with RT dept. Hesse-don’t get enough staff to do the activities. Mike-schedule when there are staff to do this. Hesse- if programing is cancelled because of not having staff this will piss clients off which adds to safety concerns. Matt-we have taken a lot of stuff away already. Mike-direction is going to be to pay additional overtime to offer additional activities. Hesse-we are luck right now. Mike-I will work with Karen to clarify for the group. Tim-we don’t like to cancel programming. One of the last things that we want to do.
  13. Staff Morale-Hesse-Seems on a down swiniwng. People feel we are getting disciplined at drop of a hat for things that can just be talked about instead. Feel that there is no real trust in staff because we have time to do audits, but no time to call people at home so we don’t inverse. Feel supervisors are sneaking around trying to catch people. ODS sneaking in at cps CPS from the back stairwell. Feel they are being held responsible for not knowing policies, but supervisors will saydon’t when they don’t know a policy. Clinical supervisors are telling staff opinions don’t matter and tell clinicians tell staff not to ask staff about quarterlies. Leaving staff on unit alone. Paul-I represent clinical too. I couldn’t tell you where that is coming from. That is not the direction. I’ve said exactly the opposite that we need to talk to operations to participate and have restructured meetings to eliminate the division. The same conversation should be happening inside. I can relay that to clinical here. That is not the culture that we want here. I would appreciate if you can share the details of this with me to be addressed. Mike-working jointly to be more cohesive. Hesse-No easy band aid but I suggested admin get out there and talk to the staff. It hasn’t happened since the search. Before and after the search it didn’t. It might not mean much to some but it is a step to let people know. S, showing you are attempting to get out there. Crystal – it would show that everyone is one team and working together. Tim-Is it more prevalent on 3rd watch? Jamie-Yes. Paul-open to suggestions, but I am running around cps CPS a lot talking to staff. I chat with them a lot and I do both shifts throughout the day. Mike- for the sneaking around, I can’t imagine that is the intent. Hesse- could be the perception. Michelle-talked about morale at cps CPS lead meeting. After search it was pretty low. I got feedback from them so maybe we can do that here as well within the perimeter. As far as sneaking on to the unit. That’s the only way I can get inon the unit. Paul-as far as a staff covering for computer usage. There is probably someone else actually doing it. Matt-when morale is down, people are less likely to talk. Tim-when you talk about trust and discipline. If you and I are working together and we have a conflict, we shouldn’t jump to writing reports. You deal with it first. Michelle-we have had an increase in reports on each other…why not just talk to each other about it. Jamie-maybe we can solve with a crest session. So it’s not back stabbing. Paul- I would love to see that but itsit’s also something you can deliver to them as well. It doesn’t need to come from us. Some staff don’t feel comfortable talking out the problem, so we don’t want to take their ability to write a report it away either. Hesse-I will say that at NEO it is shared to work together. Jamie-everyone needs to read “the five functions of team” The more staff see supervisors, the less they are going to think you are up to something.
  14. NEO Notification-Hesse-we aren’t getting notice when union presentation is. If we get notified. Liz-HR hasn’t either. Tim-I’ll talk to Eric Christianson. Liz-I’ll reach out to staff development.
  15. Jaime-6 leads out from 1 to 7 months not being backfilled and I was told has to do with funding. I understand with medical you can’t backfill. This brings down morale because the promotional opportunities are not available. Cps CPS only has half the amount they need. Will more be hired after July? Michelle-we have asked many times. Matt-for lobby weeks give us the information so we can go up and push for it. We would be willing to step up.



  1. Client Cares-Liz-I’m communicating on behalf of management for this agenda item, as you know we have an aging population. Was going to be a client that needed assistance with daily activities, but went to moose Moose Llake instead. Much like Bartlett and MSH. Heads up this will be coming for counselors here. There will be training. Just in time training as well. Wbut Michelle is working on the a training module with Forensics for staff. Tim-not a geriatrics unit but clients that may need help with socks, showers, etc. It’s a change for us here. Hesse-stance to get these clients into a unit? Mike-that is why we sent to Moose, but it’s the last bed. Someone who may be active participant will come here. Paul-part of bonding bill had to do with that so we don’t know for sure. Mike-needs vs client needs. It may come up. Tim-just want you to be aware.
  2. Bidding for Others-Tim-heard reports that…we take seriously when we hear staff are bidding on open positions and putting other names in. T to tease him or her. It can be seen as bullying and harassing. Someone said this is the third time happening. ItsIt’s not ok. We hope you are being respectful to your coworkers. This is what we have heard. JR gets list and call up so and so as highest bidder and they say “what?” Paul-it was more as a joke, but some might not see it that way. Hesse- what about when you’re off work and you ask someone to put one in? Tim-if you want to help someone its fine, but itsit’s happened 3 times for bids they didn’t want.

Meeting adjourned at 118PM