3/15/18 MSH Meeting Minutes

AFSCME Labor Management MSH

March 15th, 2018

Administration Building


Attendance: Adam Castle, Matt Stenger, Crystal Kreklow, Ryan Cates, , Steve Wilking, Kurt Crosby, Eric Hesse, Marvin Sullivan, Stacy Mueller, Alli Kuhlman, Zack Sowieja, Lisa Duchene, Scott Melby, Carol Olsen, Lisa Vanderveen



  1. Stacy-Working on museum exhibit. It has been interesting and it will be great.

 Standing Agenda Items:

  1. Osha Information-2 Handouts from Alli
  2. Overtime Information-2 Handouts provided by Alli Kuhlman-reached out to witty and Jodi about LPN
    inversed to RN. They will have to manually highlight that information. They are working on a way to track it. The new software will be able to analyze the data.

Old Business

  1. Temporary Wall: Kurt-Moved one staff from one unit to other side of building but didn’t figure in response time to the other side. An extra staff has been added to another side of the building. There is an extra staff on each side now. Nights have been doing drills. People are questioning why these drills weren’t ran before the wall was erected? Carol-Lesson learned on our end. Staff are waiting until the resources needed are there right? Kurt-yes.


  1. GMW Office: Cates-you said you would look into a space for GMW….Carol-We have the break room area on street and across from 600 area options. Cates-we thought there was a storage area that could be used for them. carol-we want to get away from notion that everyone is supposed to have their own break room space. Space is tight during this project. Go to HIMS and take a look. Cates-when construction is over, will they get theirs back? Melby-I am not sure, we will have to look at the plans. I am not just going to assume anything. There are doors going into that area that they were at. Carol-I can look into that.


  1. None


New Business


  1. None


  1. 1.      Residential Staff Overtime on Security Services: -Steve-went through stuff with residential taking overtime for capable and qualified in SS. My last day is March 20th in Security Services. On the 21st it would be nice to know what would make me capable and qualified when I train people in there. But on 21st I am not. It would be nice for residential to Security Services. It would be fiscally responsible. Do we want to waste training money on capable and qualified? Could you come up to me and ask me to work there to reduce OT? Carol-I don’t have an answer. Steve-is there a method of thinking so someone could cross train at some time? Melby-no answer right now. Melby-say someone has never worked in control. What could they do to be trained? Makes sense that you ask. Also, people that used to work in there. Also, a tracking system to keep track of who is capable and qualified to work in what area as well? Steve-yes. Melby-it’s a lot more extensive going into Security Services.


  1. 2.      1:1 Orders: Better Directions from Practitioners:  Matt-Doctor’s orders in 1 to 1 seems to be patient centeredness etc. we don’t need this reminder in the orders. Kurt-when order is written by the Doctor to the nurses…Matt-we have talked to the person that has the order and they say they didn’t do it.  Kurt-what kind of training is given to the people writing these orders? Carol-they go through same NEO. Same annual training. Stacy-a lot of them leave vague interpretation. Needs to be more set in stone. Say to do 1 minute checks on cameras….person investigated was told is it a good idea to lay your head down? The staff said “yeah, if I pick my head up every minute then that’s 1 minute.” Carol-bringing it to nurse, nurse to dr. everyone has levels of command. Lisa-I am willing to work through these issues. I wasn’t aware of these. Matt-The Sr. talked to Carly and she said “we aren’t changing it.” Lisa-I hear what you are saying and there should be conversation regarding that. Doctor put patient on 1 to 1 when he was in his room but then it discontinues if he leaves his room. Way it was ordered is that we had to have staff assigned in case he goes back to his room. The nurses understood but they can’t change the order from the doctor. Melby-until we got the order changed, we got the staff there. Crystal-the point is that these instructions are confusing. Kurt-there wasn’t an extra staff given to cover. Carol-I’m not arguing they aren’t clear. We need to escalate that up. Go to supervisor or program manager to clear it up. Crystal-the 1 to 1s are messy. When we have gone that route through chain of command, we shouldn’t have to keep coming back here. We need to make sure these doctors are writing clear directions. Carol-often times they rely on nursing staff to say how do you want that written? If they still aren’t clear…it has to escalate up with the right people. Not here. Stacy-It’s when it was written by another doctor on another shift and then we talk to the current doctor and they say “I am not going to overrule what they wrote.” Kurt-We don’t have the medical wherewithal to go to the doctor and tell them what the risks are. Carol-The role of the nurse is to inform the doctor. Stacy-I am a trained observer, I should be able to give that input.  I have gotten feedback like that. Carol-respectful engagement. Concerns regarding 1 to 1 risk and not belittling people. I can bring that to providers. Just as with everything. We have to have people asking questions and get clarification. In some cases, raising it up to another level. Kurt-I want it in notes that we have permission from you to ask questions. People don’t feel empowered. Carol-yes, be empowered. Marvin-a lot of doctors don’t follow the policy as far as how often you document, etc. I felt backlash when I asked questions. Matt-we had many that came back without the documentation information in the order. Reply back I got was “even though it may say that, it is the expectation”


  1. Staffing Accuracy for Minimums: 1:1s etc.:


  1. 4.      Prompt Responses to Investigations and limiting delays before Investigations: Waiting months and grouping together. Supposed to be corrective, not punitive. Cates-Traumatic for employees to sit in limbo. One employee just let go and was under investigation for 4 months. Zach-if it goes over the 30 days, we can let you know what is going on.


  1. 5.      Snow Removal: Last Monday a lot of snow and there wasn’t snow removal. Outside agencies wouldn’t even deliver. Carol-we are following up, I don’t know what happened because it is usually really good. Kurt-who salts sidewalks? If there are some buckets of salt, can I do that? Carol-I will look into that but please do. Be careful. It melts and it freezes. I will contact grounds to make sure there is salt in the buckets.


  1. 6.      Overtime being assigned as soon as the need is known: Cates-when there is overtime known in advance, they are waiting to assign so they can contact staff in building? For early shift. They assumed od should have already knows by looking. Melby-I don’t know what happened. I know the OD try to take care of each other. If they know in advance they try to fill it right away because it can get hectic. Now we have more time to do in advance with less overtime. We did lose the OD who is an expert at assigning overtime. When we know about it, we start working on it. Something can always happen that keeps us from getting to it so we like to take care of it.  Stacy-when we run into a 1 to 1 and the OD isn’t notified is an issue once in a while. Some people get inversed to cover that. If there is a way to better communicate that to the OD would be good. Melby-Yes, we try to do that. ODs aren’t happy when they don’t know about these things.

Add Ons

  1. 7.      Scheduler: Cates-Complaints it doesn’t work at home. Compatibility issues with windows 10. Only works with explorer and no one uses that. Melby-I’m guessing they know about this issue. Matt-I explained issues to Lokensgard and they are looking at getting the app but it’s costly. Carol-I talked to Jodi and they are looking at the app. We advocate for that. Cates-problems with coverage being wrong. I don’t know if its from OD error or system. Melby-that could be an OD error. If they want to talk to OD and let them know. Cates-showing staff on vacation who don’t actually have it. They went to the OD. Melby-ill follow up. Cates-I mutualed with someone and told not in same bargaining issue. Marvin-issue with leads and counselors switching. Carol-keep letting the sod know wo they can tell Jodi. Hesse-why wasn’t there a trial period? Melby-we are running both systems so this is kind of a trial. If we don’t tell people to use atlas they won’t. Marvin-half the shifts were different on the sites. Kurt-we were told to print off our vacation approvals because they may not be accurate on the new program. Its been stressful for some people. Those bugs should be worked out. Melby-we take it seriously and we tried to roll this out without bugs. We still have the records of the vacation approved so don’t worry about that. Steve-can we increase communication related to that program? How long will schedule anywhere be around? Melby-we have that record. It will be there. I will take these concerns and make sure we don’t mess up the approved vacations. Any program is difficult to learn. Bear with us. Kurt-comp time isn’t in there to look. Requesting for vacation. Nowhere on there. Melby-it is supposed to be counted in that, vacation bank, and accruals, floating holiday is all available when requesting off. Holidays are not because we can’t guaranteed how people will code them. connects with sema4. Download of that data every other week. Hesse-glitches are with overtime. It doesn’t go to supervisors review list. Steve-Some staff come in and aren’t on the Control Center list and we have to tell them to call the OD. Melby-Email Jodi with any issues with the scheduler. She wants to know.


  1. 8.      Denied Grievance for counting as an inverse when next shift staff failed to report: Cates-are people being counted late if staff aren’t at change. Lisa-Not if its less than 2 minutes. We start roll call at 602. We use the phone for official time. If they are using the bathroom then tell us. Cates-is it done fairly? Lisa-it should be everyone, no picking and choosing. Marvin-are we pulling time cards? Lisa-the problem is that you have 15 people come in at one time. There aren’t enough keys for everyone to have the keys. So that wouldn’t be accurate. Steve-they could be at work location and have to go to the bathroom. How is it ok to go to bathroom at anytime throughout the shift but not at the beginning? Lisa-Only if this a normal occurrence. Carol-for example. Its coming though master control. Every program has that line in the sand. It has been drawn that way in nursing and they know it. We start shift report after 2 minutes and people aren’t disciplined the 1st or 2nd time but after that maybe they have to be talked to. Marvin-it has been taken care of using the tardy policy. To me it’s a performance issue. Not a no call no call. They are at work if you are in the building. That’s a performance issue. Melby-both performance issue. Depends how you wanna categorize it. Say someone is at work 2 mins early, then they stop at a unit and visit with someone. Then they don’t show up to their unit and the other staff is wondering where they are at. Marvin-they are saying you weren’t on time for your shift. They are telling us they were in the bathroom. Carol-would you rather us call it a performance issue? Marvin-I’m just saying it isn’t a tardy issue. Crystal-but we are only talking about a couple minutes here. Marvin-its not being done consistently. Carol-so that is an issue there then that nursing can look at. Marvin-it doesn’t fall under the tardy policy is the issue. To me that is a performance issue. Its easier for the staff to understand if its performance rather than tardy policy.


  1. 9.      Forensic Nursing Home Late for Check in: Cates-Out members don’t have to stay if the next staff didn’t show up. Melby-she did the follow up with the OD. I do not want our staff to leave if they feel its unsafe. I want them to call the OD first and notify the OD. Then it’s our problem. Marvin-I had a staff with the same situation. I called the OD and the OD said its not your problem, rudely. Cates-so it’s not ok for members to leave? Melby-No, would you want your staff to leave? Cates-No. There is a game play that happens with this and we don’t want to play that game.  I can’t tell you how I am going to answer a situation that hasn’t occurred. The staff did the right thing. The question is “was she inversed?” what does the policy say?  Cates-an od is having a bad day and act like an ass. Then she’s at fault for calling the OD…Melby-she did everything right. We didn’t call it an inverse because we have to follow the contract. It isn’t ok for anyone here to be rude.



  1. 10.  Matt; When I requested investigative notes on this last discharge. I want you to know it wasn’t from us. It was by Patrick. I want you to know it wasn’t us that did it. She is very upset. Melby: thank for letting us know


Adjourned at 140 pm